# Plan would make Bush leader of entire government (not just executive) in an emergency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988 "2007-05-21T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/81 "2007-05-22T15:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] So, you seem confused, in that you both recognize that he didn’t really care about these issues, and that he didn’t actually do anything about it. If you understand that he simply used these issues for political purposes, it should logically follow that he would never do anything about them because 1) he doesn’t really care to, and 2) he would lose the ability to use them for political purposes in the future. [/QUOTE] Well, you seem confused as well, since you lambasted the Bush Administration for failing to organize the rescue and relief effort for Katrina adequately, yet are tearing apart an order that seeks to facilitate that kind of organization, especially between the multiple levels of government that we have in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/82 "2007-05-22T15:30:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, you seem confused as well, since you lambasted the Bush Administration for failing to organize the rescue and relief effort for Katrina adequately, yet are tearing apart an order that seeks to facilitate that kind of organization, especially between the multiple levels of government that we have in this country. [/QUOTE] Your perspective makes sense if you actually buy into some kind of idea that the problem with the Katrina response was competing bureaucracies. On the other hand, if you see that the problem was incompetence and ineptitude in the administration, it doesn’t make much sense at all. In terms of federal response, FEMA worked just fine before Bush. As a result I’m not sure why a mere reorganization of command would be needed from a practical perspective, since it would be presumably centralizing power in an already incompetent adminstration. Since I don’t buy into your premise, I don’t see it as a warranted or useful response to what actually happened. Anyone who doesn’t have concerns about abuse of power after observing the actual practices of this administration over the past six years is either willfully or involuntarily ignorant. At this point, it isn’t even the pointilism of Seurat with these guys. It’s more like the heavily outlined clarity of Cezanne. To not see it, you have to have your back to the canvas. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/83 "2007-05-22T15:39:37Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] In terms of federal response, FEMA worked just fine before Bush. [/QUOTE] In terms of state and local response, Louisiana and New Orleans didn’t work well before or after Bush. It is these kinds of problems we ought to be looking at as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/84 "2007-05-22T16:08:58Z")
I think what the Usual Suspects are making clear is the only thing they can seem to say in any political debate - Bush is bad, no matter what the facts. If Bush plans for an emergency, that is bad because it means he wants to take over. If he doesn’t, then that is bad because he didn’t plan for an emergency. If he runs for office, the Usual Suspects oppose him because he will make abortion illegal, outlaw gay sex, blah blah. Then, when he doesn’t attempt to make abortion illegal or blah blah, then that is bad because he is a hypocrite. Repeat as necessary to work oneself into the usual foaming fits over BUSHISTEHSUXXOR. Fortunately, it often works itself out into genuine lunacy about how Bush wants to make himself King of the Universe, and what the thread then loses in coherence, it gains in entertainment value, in a sort of Victorian trip-to-Bedlam kind of way. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/85 "2007-05-22T16:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Is this routine federal emergency planning, or an unprecedented power grab? [/QUOTE] I did not post that as a rhetorical question, BTW. Presumably every administration since Truman’s has had plans on the shelf for keeping the government going during and after a nuclear war or a catastrophe of that scale. How is this pair of presidential directives similar to those, and how is it different? Does anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/86 "2007-05-22T18:59:37Z")
It is exactly the same, but bad because Bush lied about Iraq. Or - It is completely unique, and therefore bad because Bush wants to make himself King. You people are so transparent you should wash in Windex. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/87 "2007-05-22T19:23:08Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Just a short note for all those who think “Good little German” = “Totalitarian.” It doesn’t. Those of us with actual relatives in Germany know that already. [/QUOTE] I think it’s referring to the Germans of the Nazi era, who, while not all Nazis themselves, nevertheless obeyed governmental directives regardless of the morality of them. That, along with the preexisting stereotypes of Germans as regimented and deferential to authority, give the term “good little German”, the connotation of a person who trusts and praises the government regardless of its actions. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/88 "2007-05-22T19:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] In terms of state and local response, Louisiana and New Orleans didn’t work well before or after Bush. It is these kinds of problems we ought to be looking at as well. [/QUOTE] If some difficult-to-imagine disaster had destroyed most of Wichita, and rendered it uninhabitable for months afterwards, and we’d had the same sort of Federal response, we wouldn’t be talking about how it was really Kansas’ fault. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/89 "2007-05-22T19:35:03Z")
Did any of you read this whole thing? The emphasis is on _training_ of senior leaders in the executive branch, with an emphasis on essential government functions and interoperability. Exactly the deficiencies we ought to be addressing. One paragraph explicitly notes that nothing in this order contradicts existing constitutional arrangements or law. So there you go. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/90 "2007-05-22T19:39:31Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] If some difficult-to-imagine disaster had destroyed most of Wichita, and rendered it uninhabitable for months afterwards, and we’d had the same sort of Federal response, we wouldn’t be talking about how it was really Kansas’ fault. [/QUOTE] One difference is, the flooding of New Orleans was not a difficult-to-imagine disaster. Everyone knew the implications of having the bulk of the city below sea/lake level protected only by a levee built in the 1920s. Plans should have been made for it, local, state, **and** federal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/91 "2007-05-22T20:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] …You people are so transparent you should wash in Windex… [/QUOTE] Not a problem when you have nothing to hide. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/92 "2007-05-22T20:41:05Z")
Through my contacts at the White House I have acquired a partial transcript of the meeting in which this plan was created: > [@](#): > > Rice: Mr. President, I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy… heh heh… some of our deeper mineshafts. The radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep. And in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided. > > Bush: How long would you have to stay down there? > > Rice: Well let’s see now ah, cobalt thorium G. Radioactive halflife of uh,… hmm.. I would think that uh… possibly uh… one hundred years. > > Bush: You mean, people could actually stay down there for a hundred years? > > Rice: It would not be difficult, mein Fuhrer! Nuclear reactors could, heh… I’m sorry. Mr. President. Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plantlife. Animals could be bred and slaughtered. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country. But I would guess… that ah, dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided. > > Bush: Well I… I would hate to have to decide.. who stays up and.. who goes down. > > Rice: Well, that would not be necessary Mr. President. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years. > > Bush: But look here doctor, wouldn’t this nucleus of survivors be so grief stricken and anguished that they’d, well, envy the dead and not want to go on living? > > Rice: No sir. Also when… when they go down into the mine everyone would still be alive. There would be no shocking memories, and the prevailing emotion will be one of nostalgia for those left behind, combined with a spirit of bold curiosity for the adventure ahead! > > Gates: Doctor, you mentioned the ration of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn’t that necessitate the abandonment of the so called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned? > > Rice: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious… service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature. > > Cheney: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor. > > Rice: Thank you, sir. > > Gates: I think we should look at this from the military point of view. I mean, supposing the Muslims stash away some big bomb, see. When they come out in a hundred years they could take over! > > Cheney: I agree, Mr. President. In fact, they might even try an immediate sneak attack so they could take over our mineshaft space. > > Gates: Yeah. I think it would be extremely naive of us, Mr. President, to imagine that these new developments are going to cause any change in Muslim expansionist policy. I mean, we must be… increasingly on the alert to prevent them from taking over other mineshaft space, in order to breed more prodigiously than we do, thus, knocking us out in superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow… a mine shaft gap! > > Rice: …sir! I have a plan. Heh. Mein Fuhrer, I can walk! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/93 "2007-05-22T22:48:43Z")
The ones who are alarmed at this new directive from GWB, and those who think there’s nothing to get hung about, are missing the 6-year reality. Mr. Bush has already assumed most of those powers. Is he a dictator, not accountable to anyone? Apparently not, because he never said so. He, and a herd of calm voices, have told us that his expansion of presidential powers is constitutional and necessary. Congress, in the 9/11 excitement, passed a 300-page PATRIOT Act that nobody was given time to read. In a similar rush, the Iraq resolution gave the president the right to do whatever was necessary, and he took that to mean he was not subject to existing laws regulating warrantless wiretaps and torture. For 6 years, the Republican congress was so giddy with the dream of a permanent GOP majority that it was a rubber stamp to everything the White House wanted. Has the US turned into a theocracy? Of course not, say the calm voices. However, hundreds of millions of dollars have been allotted to “faith-based” services. Our efforts to fight AIDS in Africa have been turned over to missionary groups that don’t believe in condoms and refuse to educate prostitutes. Jews in the Air Force Academy were told by instructors that they’d never get anywhere in the AF unless they accepted Jesus. In the FDA, abortion drugs and emergency contraception were held up for as long as possible by appointed officials who believed abortion and contraception are immoral. **Mr. Moto** points out that, “One paragraph explicitly notes that nothing in this order contradicts existing constitutional arrangements or law. So there you go.” Perhaps **Moto** was being sarcastic, as I would be if I said that. If you ask the herd of spincasters, everything Mr. Bush has done is legal and constitutional. Never mind the actual Constitution. “It says what we say it says.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/94 "2007-05-22T22:52:51Z")
Do you have cites to back any of that hysterical bullshit up? Just curious… -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/95 "2007-05-22T22:54:25Z")
Cites for “hysterical bullshit”? Not that you’ve made up your mind, or anything. Short of an affidavit signed by God Almighty, what did you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/96 "2007-05-22T22:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Cites for “hysterical bullshit”? Not that you’ve made up your mind, or anything. Short of an affidavit signed by God Almighty, what did you have in mind? [/QUOTE] Oh, I don’t know…start with these I guess and work from there: > [@](#): > > Our efforts to fight AIDS in Africa have been turned over to missionary groups that don’t believe in condoms and refuse to educate prostitutes. > [@](#): > > Jews in the Air Force Academy were told by instructors that they’d never get anywhere in the AF unless they accepted Jesus. (This of couse would be fucking illegal…I think ‘hysterical bullshit’ is mild on this one) > [@](#): > > In the FDA, abortion drugs and emergency contraception were held up for as long as possible by appointed officials who believed abortion and contraception are immoral. On a less hysterical note (barely), you could get me a cite that Congress didn’t have time to read the Patriot Act before passing it: > [@](#): > > Congress, in the 9/11 excitement, passed a 300-page PATRIOT Act that nobody was given time to read. In a similar rush, the Iraq resolution gave the president the right to do whatever was necessary, and he took that to mean he was not subject to existing laws regulating warrantless wiretaps and torture. Best get cracking… -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/97 "2007-05-22T23:00:15Z")
Oh yeah…and I don’t need “an affidavit signed by God Almighty” (being agnostic myself this wouldn’t hold much weight with me in any case)…cites from main stream sources would work fine. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/98 "2007-05-22T23:05:04Z")
Well, just for my own, I’ve read that stuff about the oppressive prevalence of evangelical Xtianity at the Air Force Academy more than once, from sources various. You probably wouldn’t have any difficulty. The scandals about the FDA are pretty well known, as are the Admin’s blatant efforts to interfere. Not well stated, but not “hysterical bullshit”, by any stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Public_Animal_No.9)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/99 "2007-05-22T23:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > “The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government.”! OK, so I’m pretty new at this SDMB stuff, but I was a bit surprised to see all the hoopla over this little plan. When I read the story, I just thought it was a way for W to take over from Cheney. I mean after 6 years, he probably thinks it’s time for the training wheels to come off. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/100 "2007-05-22T23:27:07Z")
Hell, all the other wheels have come off… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988.md?page=6)