# Plan would make Bush leader of entire government (not just executive) in an emergency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988 "2007-05-21T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/101 "2007-05-22T23:30:21Z")
BTW, does a presidential directive continue in force from one administration to the next? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/102 "2007-05-22T23:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Oh yeah…and I don’t need “an affidavit signed by God Almighty” (being agnostic myself this wouldn’t hold much weight with me in any case)…cites from main stream sources would work fine. -XT [/QUOTE] Hypothetically speaking, if cites from mainstream news sources were given for any/some/all of these claims, would you then think that Mr. Bush might not be worthy of being president? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/103 "2007-05-22T23:35:39Z")
o/` The wheels on the bus come off, off, off! Off, off, off! Off, off, off! The wheels on the bus come off, off, off! Late on Dubya's wa-atch! o/` ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/104 "2007-05-22T23:52:45Z")
I find it interesting the discussion has moved on from the actual directive to condemnation of the Iraq war, assertions that Cheney actually runs the government, claims about Christian bias in the Air Force and et cetera. It’s pretty profound that when the left start frothing at the mouth they lose the ability to actually discuss the subject at hand. Or maybe the fact that the concept of this directive being an “enabling act” has been so thoroughly debunked even in the crazed stupor some of the posters here have fallen into it was realized this wasn’t a particularly ripe target. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/105 "2007-05-22T23:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > …Or maybe the fact that the concept of this directive being an “enabling act” has been so thoroughly debunked even in the crazed stupor some of the posters here have fallen into it was realized this wasn’t a particularly ripe target… Your English Comp 101 teacher is standing on a ledge, threatening suicide. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/106 "2007-05-23T00:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Hypothetically speaking, if cites from mainstream news sources were given for any/some/all of these claims, would you then think that Mr. Bush might not be worthy of being president? [/QUOTE] Um…no. There aren’t enough cites in the world to make me think that fool is worthy of being president. Why? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/107 "2007-05-23T03:02:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] BTW, does a presidential directive continue in force from one administration to the next? [/QUOTE] IANACL, but my understanding is that presidential directives are just a form of executive orders, so they would remain in effect until superceded or revoked by another EO or act of Congress or overruled by the Supreme Court (as happened with Truman’s order to nationalize the steel mills.) Reading the text of this one again, I dont see where the executive branch is claiming any powers beyond its authority. I have not read all of the previous ones, but considering all the acronyms that have been carried forward, I bet most of the boilerplate is the same. The only major difference seems be taking into account the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and other post 9/11 agencies, which I stated earlier. I remember hearing the same hoopla regarding the creation of FEMA and how that it would allow the Executive Branch to declare martial law in cases of emergency. Considering how well that agency was managed by this administration, I wonder just how effective the actual contigency plans are. I have no love for this administration, but I also have no fear of it beyond further incompetence. I am sure some neo-cons (and neo-coms, and neo-dems, et al.,) would love to see a strong authoritarian president. We had one with FDR. And we passed the 22nd amendment to prevent another one. I seriously doubt it will be repealed anytime soon, and certainly not for the current incumbent. On a side note, I am currently disgusted with the previous Congresses for allowing the incumbent to trample on the Constitution as much as he has, knowing they would have never tolerated such abuses from a Democrat. I firmly believe that Bush should be impeached, but this is much ado about nothing. AP ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/108 "2007-05-23T03:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Um…no. There aren’t enough cites in the world to make me think that fool is worthy of being president. Why? -XT [/QUOTE] Just curious as to why you are so quick to label claims critical of this administration “hysterical bullshit”? > [@xtisme](#): > > He can and has stretched the existing system just about as far as it could go…and that system is starting to fight itself back into its original shape. I have heard this same thing over and over again for the last five or six years. “He won’t be able to do this, Congress won’t allow it.” “He won’t be able to do that, the courts won’t allow it.” Every time something new and slimy is revealed, the supposedly left-wing mainstream media covers it until a new scandal or crisis arrives like magic to knock it off the front page. There is no limit to what this administration can get away with if they proceed at a deliberate pace. People will get used to anything if they are prepared for it. Our country is no different than any other country in history when it comes to corruption. I used to think that a reasonable person who was a true believer in a cause could eventually be persuaded to change her/his mind if enough evidence came in. I was wrong, and I freely admit it. If Bush had a different scandal every day of the week for the next twenty weeks, the true believers would dismiss every damning bit of evidence with their common mantra-"It’s just another Bush-bashing thread :rolleyes: ". There could countless scandals, but to them there is no last straw that breaks the camel’s back. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/109 "2007-05-23T03:54:39Z")
[Quote=White House] (22) Revocation. Presidential Decision Directive 67 of October 21, 1998 (“Enduring Constitutional Government and Continuity of Government Operations”), including all Annexes thereto, is hereby revoked. [/quote] I think to get a better idea of what this new directive means, we need to do a side by side comparison with [Directive 67](http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd/fpc-65.htm) . What was in the old directive thats not in the new one, and vice versa. And would someone in the know please tell me what a “classified Continuity Annex” is? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/110 "2007-05-23T04:04:15Z")
That’s classified. I could tell you, but then I’d have to coordinate you. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/111 "2007-05-23T05:04:13Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Do you have cites to back any of that hysterical bullshit up? Just curious… -XT [/QUOTE] Oh, come on, **XT** , read a newspaper now and then. How deep in the bush do you have to be to not know this stuff? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/112 "2007-05-23T05:40:38Z")
Might I assume that no cites will be forthcoming? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/113 "2007-05-23T05:55:26Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Might I assume that no cites will be forthcoming? 😛 -XT [/QUOTE] If you choose to stay in your cave and pretend that no assaults on the First Amendment are happening, no cites will convince you. Peace be upon you. I wish you well. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/114 "2007-05-23T07:49:42Z")
**xtisme** , I can’t believe that you are asking people to cite major news stories. Try googling “Air Force Academy” and Fundamentalist and see how many pages of references you come up with. Here’s just one quote from [about.com](http://about.com): > [@](#): > > The Christian Right has tried to portray the problems at the Air Force academy as a witch hunt against Christians. They have argued that complaints about Christians’ persecution of Jews is really persecution of Christians. Now, the superintendent of the Air Force Academy has admitted that there are serious problems at the school. [Cite](http://atheism.about.com/b/a/175278.htm) I looked over the Clinton years version of the emergency planning directive. The difference in the two just made me shake my head. The one from the Clinton Administration is a detailed plan for agencies on what specifically to do _before_, during and after a crisis or emergency. It takes into consideration such things as care for vital information such as Social Security records. It requires that agencies **prioritize** needs. These plans are extremely detailed. They shouldn’t leave anyone wondering “who’s responsible?” It appears to me that the most important work is down beforehand. Since Clinton is responsible only for the Executive Branch, his directive does not address the Legislature or the SCOTUS. He kept himself **separate**. Bush’s directive I have already addressed. It was worded in such a way that it could be construed to mean just about anything. And it certainly says that he would be the coordinator of the Legislative Branch and the Supreme Court. He can say that that is Constitutional, **Mr. Moto** , but that just doesn’t make it so. His reputation for integrity has just bottomed out. Don’t you find it interesting that he even felt the need to reassure us? I don’t honestly think that Bush can take over the government either. But ten years ago I never dreamed that we would openly torture people or hold prisoners without due process. I did not think that I would ever see us fight a war of aggression. I didn’t think that Vice Presidents could be so corrupt and without class and continue in office. This is just not the country that I have been familiar with since WWII. As Dorothy Parker said, “What fresh hell is this?” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/115 "2007-05-23T11:25:57Z")
One thing that the current Republicans have exposed is the fact that so much of the way our government has worked has been based not on explicit prohibitions, but on a common understanding of how things are supposed to work, and what sort of things would be wrong to do. That is to say, at least I didn’t consider how much of the functioning of the government relied on the personal ethics and morality of the individuals in government. It’s a bit eye opening, but what is evident now is that if there are individuals who lack a sense of ethic, integrity or honor, the rules are not so clear as to prohibit them from violating every sense of what is proper, decent and honorable. The present Republicans are the type of people who make groups or organizations come up with all sorts of explicit rules about what cannot be done that, later on, seem extreme or over the top in terms of the details and specifics. Rules-doctors with a psychopathic streak currently run our government. The fact that there are still many in the general public who would support, defend or even just give these guys cover as a lark no longer surprises me. Perhaps what modern America somehow, for some reason, needs is a Republican government every thirty years to remind us just how corrupt, sleazy and untrustworthy our leaders can sink. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/116 "2007-05-23T13:20:29Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] And it certainly says that he would be the coordinator of the Legislative Branch and the Supreme Court. [/QUOTE] No it most certainly does not. > [@](#): > > (9) Recognizing that each branch of the Federal Government is responsible for its own continuity programs, an official designated by the Chief of Staff to the President shall ensure that the executive branch’s COOP and COG policies in support of ECG efforts are appropriately coordinated with those of the legislative and judicial branches in order to ensure interoperability and allocate national assets efficiently to maintain a functioning Federal Government. The plan specifically recognizes the separation of powers, but permits coordination with the plans drawn up by the other branches. This does not mean that the executive has the power to coordinate the judicial or legislative plans, any more than they have the power to make unilateral changes in the executive plan. The coordination will be done by negotiation by staffers. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/117 "2007-05-23T13:33:48Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I find it interesting the discussion has moved on from the actual directive to condemnation of the Iraq war, assertions that Cheney actually runs the government, claims about Christian bias in the Air Force and et cetera. It’s pretty profound that when the left start frothing at the mouth they lose the ability to actually discuss the subject at hand. [/QUOTE] They **are** discussing the subject at hand, which is the same as it always is - OHMIGODBUSHLIEDEVILBADIHATEHIMHATEHIMHATEHIMBADBUSHBADBUSHICKYICKYHATEHIMHATEHIM!!! My preciiousssssssss… Oh, and **Zoe**? You were asked for a cite that showed that Bush is responsible for - > [@](#): > > Jews in the Air Force Academy were told by instructors that they’d never get anywhere in the AF unless they accepted Jesus. You then gave a cite that says - > [@](#): > > He said he admonished the academy’s No. 2 commander, Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida, a born-again Christian, for sending an e-mail promoting National Prayer Day. “We sat down and said, `This is not right,’ and he acknowledged that,” Rosa said… Not quite the same thing, wouldn’t you agree? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > \Just curious as to why you are so quick to label claims critical of this administration “hysterical bullshit”? “Quick”? I posted a link or two going back to 2004 that this kind of paranoid nonsense about Bush cancelling elections and becoming dictator was being preached and swallowed with fervor on the SDMB. Guess what? It _was_ hysterical bullshit back in 2004, just like it is now, and for the same reasons. Face it - you’re lying. You’re making shit up about Bush. What you are claiming is not true. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I used to think that a reasonable person who was a true believer in a cause could eventually be persuaded to change her/his mind if enough evidence came in. I was wrong, and I freely admit it. OK - if evidence came in that Bush was not plotting to cancel any elections, that this planning was pretty much identical to something done by Presidents going back to Truman, that every allegation about how sinister this all is was based solely and entirely on the paranoid delusion of the less rational fools of the far Left - Would you change your mind then? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/118 "2007-05-23T13:41:45Z")
**Shodan** , thanks ever so much for your reasoned non-response. I am curious, though-did you get that "OHMIGODBUSHLIEDEVILBADIHATEHIMHATEHIMHATEHIMBADBUSHBADBUSHICKYICKYHATEHIMHATEHIM!!! My preciiousssssssss…" rant from Limbaugh, or did you think it up all by yourself? And would you mind actually _answering_ the question about whether you would change your mind about Bush if the cites were provided? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/119 "2007-05-23T14:19:03Z")
I made it up myself. The idea that it was a “non-response” is stupid. > [@](#): > > And would you mind actually answering the question about whether you would change your mind about Bush if the cites were provided? Sure I’ll answer it. Provide the cites, from mainstream media, that all the charges are _specifically_ true **and** that Bush is directly responsible for them. **AND** - if you answer my question first. None of this fucking weaseling. The charge was made that Bush is responsible because Jews at the Air Force Academy were told to accept Jesus or they would not be promoted (or whatever you want to call “getting ahead”). What was provided was a cite that the second in command sent an e-mail about the National Day of Prayer, and that he was immediately rebuked for it. So all I need to see is a cite that Bush started the National Day of Prayer, and instructed officials in the military to warn recruits that they had better become Christians. You will also need to provide a cite that nobody was given time to read the Patriot Act before they passed it, and that the wiretaps were first begun based on the authority of the Iraq war resolution (and not from a program started under [Mr. Peanut).](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060210-110722-2189r.htm) Then you can show how Bush cancelled the 2004 elections and is ruling by fiat. Fire up Google, and get cracking. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988/120 "2007-05-23T14:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] xtisme, I can’t believe that you are asking people to cite major news stories. Try googling “Air Force Academy” and Fundamentalist and see how many pages of references you come up with. Here’s just one quote from [about.com](http://about.com): [/QUOTE] Well Zoe, here’s the thing. I AM aware of this problem. However, thats not the assertion that was made, nor the one I asked for. Look back over the assertions made and try again…or not. AskNott seems to feel that I shouldn’t dare ASK for cites (the name and assertion is really quite funny…IMHO) Thus far all I’ve seen is hand waving and ‘read the bloody news your conservative idiot’ type assertions…along with a cite for something other than what was asserted. Since its not clear I guess, let me say right out…every one of those assertions is a distortion. If the poster wants to clean them up and bring them in line with reality, I’m all for it. Either do that or let me see the cites… [QUOTE=AskNott] If you choose to stay in your cave and pretend that no assaults on the First Amendment are happening, no cites will convince you. Peace be upon you. I wish you well. [/QUOTE] 😛 You funny. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plan-would-make-bush-leader-of-entire-government-not-just-executive-in-an-emergency/404988.md?page=7)