# Plane crash in Buffalo, New York. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660 "2009-02-13T06:40:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/21 "2009-02-13T17:18:25Z")
CNN weather guy is talking about carb ice. Turboprops don’t have carburettors. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/22 "2009-02-13T17:31:34Z")
Most news reporters don’t know jack about airplanes, Johnny. You know that. As time goes by, I more and more suspect that the average reporter is expert only at obtaining teeth whitening and a haircut. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/23 "2009-02-13T18:17:14Z")
Yeah, I think the coincidence is that two flights out of NY metro went down within a month of each other. But then, NY metro is also home to 3 major airports. I think it’s kinda like the birthday problem. If you were to take any two random flights from the same metro area then you could find a pair, one person from each flight, with some bizarre connections that would only be realized if both flights went down. The chances that the connection is “relative of 9/11 victim” are probably less that 50%, but there are an almost infinite number of other bizarro links that you could be shocked by: 2 disabled Iraq war veterans, 2 Holocaust survivors, 2 of Obama’s cabinet nominees, etc. Chances are one of those links will be a hit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/24 "2009-02-13T19:03:37Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Wow. I’ve taken that flight - puddle-jumper (okay, commuter plane, but still) from Newark to Buffalo at least a few times. It always made me nervous on approach; you’d swear looking out the window that you were no more than 20 feet over every house west of Buffalo. > > –snip– West of Buffalo is Lake Erie, the crash happened about 15 miles east of the city and maybe less than 10 miles from the airport. It’s 2 in the afternoon and no new real news, the fire and surrounding area cooled off enough to let the NTSB people in to get the data recorders, no recoveries yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/25 "2009-02-13T20:05:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As time goes by, I more and more suspect that the average reporter is expert only at obtaining teeth whitening and a haircut. That’s slanderous and unfair. The average _TV_ reporter is expert only at obtaining teeth whitening and a haircut. Other journalists tend to be very skilled at obtaining alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/26 "2009-02-13T21:28:41Z")
I stand corrected, then! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/27 "2009-02-13T21:33:02Z")
Top o’ the headlines here of course. A lot of people from Toronto go through Buffalo to other destinations in the States. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/28 "2009-02-13T21:35:17Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > West of Buffalo is Lake Erie, Ah. Yes .. just call me Wrong Way. I meant east. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/29 "2009-02-13T21:54:29Z")
Yahoo had an article just now saying the data recorder showed a sharp change of pitch and roll when they put down the flaps in preparation for landing. Sounds to me like an asymmetric flap deployment caused by ice buildup. ---
**Author:** ![jlsmith57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jlsmith57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlsmith57)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/30 "2009-02-13T22:03:25Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Wow. I’ve taken that flight - puddle-jumper (okay, commuter plane, but still) from Newark to Buffalo at least a few times. It always made me nervous on approach; you’d swear looking out the window that you were no more than 20 feet over every house west of Buffalo. > > From what I understand, the plane didn’t go for any sort of controlled crash or anything, but rather suddenly lost power or lift or something and nose-dived. I would imagine if it came down rolling through the neighborhood, there might have been even further loss of life. > > Very disconcerting either way. My grandparents lived about a mile from the Buffalo airport. The planes landed right over their house. We could sit in their driveway and wave at the pilots coming in and they would wave back. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/31 "2009-02-13T22:16:03Z")
Someone at the PPRuNe thread mentioned how the controller informed another aircraft from the same company his colleague had gone down. It was heart-breaking: ATC: Sir, I need you to prepare yourself. Umm, company dash 8 inbound, we think it went down over the outer marker. We’re not sure why. I’m not sure if you want to try the approach. Since then we’ve had 4 aircraft going, they were all jets. CJC3268: Er, can you clarify the, er, the dash 8? How… what do you mean it went down?! ATC: He didn’t make the airport. He was cleared for the approach, he went over to tower, he didn’t call the tower, basically he X’ed out on his mode C, we couldn’t get a hold of him. There’s report he’s, um, went down about 5 miles NW of the airport [sic]. It must be very difficult for that crew to learn about what happened that way. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/32 "2009-02-13T23:08:45Z")
On the other hand, flying over the outer marker, looking down, and seeing a blazing inferno with your company logo sticking up out of it is not a good way to find out, either. I’ve had to fly over airplane wrecks while going into and out of an airport before. It’s not a happy thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/33 "2009-02-14T00:06:45Z")
By the way, TMZ is reporting that two members of Chuck (“Feels So Good”) Mangione’s band were killed in the crash. A show scheduled for Friday night in Buffalo has been canceled. > **[Chuck Mangione's Bandmates Die in Fatal Crash](https://www.tmz.com/2009/02/13/chuck-mangiones-bandmates-die-in-fatal-crash/)** > > Two members of Chuck Mangione's band were among those who died in the plane crash in Buffalo last night. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/34 "2009-02-14T00:21:30Z")
Partial passenger list posted. [http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/578574.html](http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/578574.html) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/35 "2009-02-14T00:59:59Z")
The cantor at the synagogue much of my father’s side of the family attends is dead. I’ve met her a few times at services and bar/bat mitzvahs. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/36 "2009-02-14T01:18:56Z")
i am amazed that people living in the house survived. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/37 "2009-02-14T02:11:59Z")
Quick question: how are off-duty pilots “hitching” rides on company aircraft marked down on passenger lists and manifests? I’m assuming the presence of one is why the death toll was listed as 49 when I went to bed and 50 when I got up. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/38 "2009-02-14T04:25:34Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i am amazed that people living in the house survived. Only two of them. The husband/father was in the center of the house, where the plane came in. His wife and daughter were on opposite sides of the house, and were able to crawl to safety. No word on the husband and they are not releasing the name of the fatality on the ground. ☹ ETA- **Leaper** , there were 49 on the plane and one on the ground, I think. That’s how CBS radio is reporting it here. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/39 "2009-02-14T04:34:12Z")
I received an e-mail from some friends who had a reservation on this flight, but had some last-minute problems, felt rushed, and decided to wait a day. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660/40 "2009-02-14T09:05:35Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Quick question: how are off-duty pilots “hitching” rides on company aircraft marked down on passenger lists and manifests? I’m assuming the presence of one is why the death toll was listed as 49 when I went to bed and 50 when I got up. No, crew and passengers are all included in the total count of people so “all dead” means the same number regardless of the number of crew, passengers, and deadheading crew. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Sounds to me like an asymmetric flap deployment caused by ice buildup. It’s not physically possible to get an asymmetric flap deployment on a Dash 8 unless one of the primary drive shafts AND the secondary drive shaft physically break so that’s highly unlikely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plane-crash-in-buffalo-new-york/485660.md?page=3)