# Planes that didn't make it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 6, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669 "2006-05-06T14:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/41 "2006-05-07T18:34:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The Spruce Goose would have been a great plane if it had gone into production in 1938. It was simply obsolete by the time it actually flew. > > Which brings up the subject of those magnificent flying boats and why their time passed. Flying boats were based upon the limitations of mid to late 1930s airplane technology: Few or no airstrips capable of handling anything heavier than a DC3, especially in the third world; prohibitive fuel/cargo ratios for direct transAtlantic flight; and a practical cruising speed between 100 and 200 mph. So to fly across the Atlantic in the late 1930s you took either the northern route (eastern seaboard- Newfoundland- Greenland- Iceland- Scotland) or the southern route (eastern seaboard- Caribbean- Brazil- Guinea Coast- Morocco) with refueling stops at every step. This took long enough that comfortable accommodations were desirable. > > By the end of WW2 planes had the range and speed to fly nonstop directly across the Atlantic, and paved airstrips capable of handling heavy four-engine planes were more common. The focus moved away from flying hotels to something that would get you where you were going in a day or less. I know that Howard Hughes flew the Spruce Goose for a short hop…just to prove that the thing would actually fly. But did it actually have enough power to carry the anticiapated loads? I’m guessing that the plane was seriously underpowered, and that very likely, it would have been a very dangerous plane to fly in emergency conditions. Plus, I’ve heard that landing seaplanes is quite difficult in anything more than a mild chop-big waves are a problem. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/42 "2006-05-07T20:15:41Z")
The [CL-84 Dynavert](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CL-84) seems like it fits the bill nicely too. A tiltrotor(or tiltwing) turboprop from the 60s. The article’s a little light but it’s said to have been cancelled because even if the Canadian gov’t bought it, the Americans wouldn’t (the “Buy American” attitude was especially present at the time) Of course, that wasn’t the only reason, like it’s modern decendent the V-22 Osprey, it had teething problems (a couple crashes, fatalities). Obviously significantly smaller than the Osprey, but I’d bet that if it went in to production we’d have had tiltrotors bigger than the Osprey operational in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/43 "2006-05-07T20:26:29Z")
Oh yeah, and the [Avro Jetliner](http://www.avroarrow.org/Jetliner/JetlinerIntro.html). Almost the first jet transport (lost to the DH Comet by less than 2 weeks) It was basically the first regional jet… it was designed to be a smaller, shorter range counterpart to the DH Comet. Nice jet from what I’ve read. A real pilot’s aircraft. Howard Hughes used it as his personal aircraft for a while… Of course many aircraft have had that distinction. It was cancelled because the Canadian gov’t wanted more [CF-100 Canuck](http://www.vectorsite.net/avcf100.html) inteceptors… Not that I’m complaining, about the CF-100 as it is possibly my favourite aircraft ever (gotta love those straight-wing jets.) I wish there were some left flying, even though I don’t fit in the cockpit (I’ve sat in 2 of them) ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/44 "2006-05-07T21:30:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If you think carefully about it, would you like to be in an airplane nicknamed “The Fireball”? 😃 > > I’d read that counterrotating propellers, although nifty, have always had enough problems that they’ve been of limited use. The Fireball didn’t have counter-rotating props, if that’s what you were referring to. I grew up within biking distance of the San Diego Aerospace Museum (the old one) and they used to have a Fireball on display. This was back in the day when the museum staff was two or three people for the whole set of displays. Me and my buddy Andy used to go visit and clamber all over the displays and no one cared. Ah, me. Another San Diego product that I always loved was the Convair XF2Y Sea Dart. I can’t seem to get a link to work to an image but it was a jet-powered sea plane interseptor! Ah, the fifties and those wacky unrestrained budgets… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/45 "2006-05-07T21:32:41Z")
Man. I miss the cold war … ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/46 "2006-05-07T21:59:09Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > The Fireball didn’t have counter-rotating props, if that’s what you were referring to. I grew up within biking distance of the San Diego Aerospace Museum (the old one) and they used to have a Fireball on display. This was back in the day when the museum staff was two or three people for the whole set of displays. Me and my buddy Andy used to go visit and clamber all over the displays and no one cared. Ah, me. > > Another San Diego product that I always loved was the Convair XF2Y Sea Dart. I can’t seem to get a link to work to an image but it was a jet-powered sea plane interseptor! Ah, the fifties and those wacky unrestrained budgets… I think the counter-rotating props thing referrred to the Douglas Mixmaster, in my post. And the Mixmaster reported no significant prop difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/47 "2006-05-07T22:00:27Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Man. I miss the cold war … That remark is… :smack: :mad: . ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/48 "2006-05-07T22:04:55Z")
One book on this subject is “World’s Worst Aircraft”, by Bill Yenne, ISBN: 08802-9490-6. It has articles & photos about many of the planes mentioned here. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/49 "2006-05-07T22:26:58Z")
Let’s not forget the [XB-70 Valkyrie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XB-70). Here’s a more detailed [chronology](http://www.labiker.org/xb70.html). ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/50 "2006-05-07T22:43:15Z")
I also liked the XP-55 [Ascender](http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/ascender.htm), though I’m surpirsed that the link doesn’t mention the intentional pun on “ass-ender.” ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/51 "2006-05-07T23:42:00Z")
What about the [ConVairCar](http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/2722.htm)? An automobile that one could go to the local airport and rent a wing/prop assembly, bolt it on, and fly to the next airport - put the wing/prop assembly into storage there, and drive to one’s final destination? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/52 "2006-05-07T23:47:12Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How about the “GOBLIN” mini-fighter (it was launched and recovered from a B-52 bomber. Unfortunately, it was too small to do a whole lot. Does one survive? [Yes.](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap38.htm) It was intended to be carried by the B-36, not B-52. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/53 "2006-05-08T00:09:30Z")
[Linky-poo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F2Y_Sea_Dart) for the Sea Dart. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/54 "2006-05-08T02:13:54Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > The [Boeing Pelican](http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2002/september/i_pw.html) ground-effect plane. At least I assume it didn’t make it, I haven’t heard about it in a while. Not a question specifically about planes, but the Pelican brings it up. Since the '60s at least there have been various proposals for intermediate- speed/cost cargo transport: faster than a ship, not as expensive as air freight. To fill that niche have been proposed hydrofoils, air-cushion ships, ground-effect planes, and even the revival of dirigibles. None of these have gotten off the drawing boards. Is it the technology, or is the intermediate speed/cost niche in fact not economically viable? ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/55 "2006-05-08T02:47:58Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > With **27** hardpoints and supercruise\*, it was quite an airplane. > > Pullin > > \*No, the F-22A wasn’t the first. The Concorde, Tu-144, Lightning and Valkyrie all had supercruise prior to the F-16XL. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/56 "2006-05-08T02:58:17Z")
In case anyone is wondering … [Supercruise](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercruise) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/57 "2006-05-08T03:09:23Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > ground-effect planes, […] None of these have gotten off the drawing boards. [Ekranoplan](http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/lun_ekranoplan.pl) Also, scroll down [this page](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0130.shtml) to see the Flarecraft L-325. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/58 "2006-05-08T03:13:28Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Also, scroll down [this page](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0130.shtml) Hit submit too soon. It makes an interesting point which may answer your question (concerning ground effect planes, anyways). > [@](#): > > So the WIG concept is clearly not new, and has been implemented by several manufacturers. However, none has really caught on, and the primary reason is that ground effect craft only become truly practical for very large vehicles, even larger than the massive KM. The reasoning is as follows. As discussed above, the amount of lift a flying vehicle needs to generate is directly related to its weight. The heavier a plane is, the more lift it needs, so the larger its wings must be (for the same cruise speed). This basic relation becomes a problem when we consider very heavy aircraft. As payload weight increases, wing size increases which requires larger and heavier structures that further increase overall weight. As weight increases, additional thrust and fuel is required to push the vehicle at its desired cruise speed over the required range, and the need for larger or additional engines plus greater fuel capacity further increases the overall weight of the vehicle. This trend pushes manufacturers towards increasingly complicated and expensive design solutions that make very large and heavy aircraft unprofitable to build. ---
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/59 "2006-05-08T03:26:10Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > What other aircraft – military or civilian, fixed-wing or not – had potential but didn’t make the cut, and you would have liked to have seen more of? Great thread! Much better than the typical tripe that gets posted to Threadspotting. The Blohm & Voss page is truly wonderful. When I first started looking at it, though, I couldn’t help but think of the Monty Python routine with the cross-eyed explorer proposing to scale the twin peaks of Kilimanjaro. The B&V designer seems to have been obsessed with asymmetry! :rolleyes: The Ekranoplan is the most impressive “aircraft” of the bunch. I’d hate to see _that_ thing coming towards me. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669/60 "2006-05-08T21:54:28Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > [Ekranoplan](http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/lun_ekranoplan.pl) > > Also, scroll down [this page](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0130.shtml) to see the Flarecraft L-325. As I said in another thread, I’m surprised someone hasn’t tried doing real-life Pod racing in something like one of these. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planes-that-didnt-make-it/355669.md?page=4)