# Planespotting: Brewster Buffal discovered in Midway Lagoon **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527 "2013-01-08T20:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/1 "2013-01-08T20:22:48Z")
[10 Feet Below Waters Off Midway Atoll, a Famous Flying Dud](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/us/02fighter.html?_r=0) Even as a child, this airplane never captured my attention. I had a Time-Life book (a big orange-covered one called _Aircraft of World War Two_ or something like that – I’ll have to dig it out one day and take a picture) that had the Buffalo in it. Two or three years ago I read an account of the early battles by Australian and New Zealand units based on Papua New Guinea, and there was a section on fighting the Japanese in the Brewster Buffalo. Awful plane, but there were some successes. Anyway, from the article it appears that the aircraft will not be salvaged and restored. Officials have not yet decided whether any artifacts will be recovered for display. There is only one ‘complete’ Buffalo in the world, which is on display in Finland. This aircraft has wooden wings and a Russian engine. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/2 "2013-01-08T20:33:55Z")
Very interesting, I’d never heard of them before and now I see why. The article of course makes you wonder just what the kill ratio would have been if the Japanese Zero had ever flown against the Russian craft they mentioned that the Buffalo did well against. ‘One sided’ is an extreme understatement. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/3 "2013-01-08T21:12:27Z")
That’s a very good article, and well researched. As regards the Russian planes they were up against in Finland, I suspect a great many of them were of this type, making a far better match than the Zero: > **[Polikarpov I-16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-16)** > > The Polikarpov I-16 (Russian: Поликарпов И-16) is a Soviet single-engine single-seat fighter aircraft of revolutionary design; it was the world's first low-wing cantilever monoplane fighter with retractable landing gear to attain operational status and as such "introduced a new vogue in fighter design". The I-16 was introduced in the mid-1930s and formed the backbone of the Soviet Air Force at the beginning of World War II. The diminutive fighter, nicknamed "Ishak" or "Ishachok" ("donkey" or " I find the comments about the added armor and other modifications interesting. The Zero was such a fast and maneuverable airplane precisely because it lacked armor plating and self-sealing fuel tanks; once one was captured intact in the Aleutians, it was an easy matter to design fighters to defeat it (specifically, the F6F and F4U). Also, when the P-38 with its enormous concentrated firepower entered combat in the Pacific, it easily chewed Zeroes into little pieces. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/4 "2013-01-08T21:19:54Z")
The F2A wasn’t the only US plane to fare badly at Midway. These were shot down like flies: > **[Douglas TBD Devastator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_TBD_Devastator)** > > The Douglas TBD Devastator was an American torpedo bomber of the United States Navy. Ordered in 1934, it first flew in 1935 and entered service in 1937. At that point, it was the most advanced aircraft flying for the Navy and possibly for any navy in the world. However, the fast pace of aircraft development quickly caught up with it, and by the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor the TBD was already outdated. > The Devastator performed well in early battles, most notably in the Battle of C... As Wiki states, though, it was the Devastator attacks that opened the window of opportunity for the SBD dive bombers to attack—even worse luck for the Japanese than for the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/5 "2013-01-08T22:28:29Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > [Polikarpov I-16 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-16) That even looks a bit like the Buffalo. The F6F Hellcat was the real Zero-killer. IIRC, Corsairs shot down 2,140 Japanese aircraft (again, IIRC, a Betty wasn’t actually shot down, but was sawn down by the Marine’s propeller when he ran out of ammo). The Hellcat shot down more than 5,168 – including 8 in the MTO. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/6 "2013-01-09T14:27:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The Hellcat shot down more than 5,168 – including 8 in the MTO. There were Zeroes in the Mediterranean? :dubious: I recall naval aircraft (both USN and RNFAA) being used in Operation TORCH (November, 1942), but they would have been up against German, Italian, and Vichy French planes, surely. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planespotting-brewster-buffal-discovered-in-midway-lagoon/646527/7 "2013-01-09T14:42:03Z")
I always liked the [Peashooter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-26_Peashooter)