# Planet Money piece: UNFIT FOR WORK The startling rise of disability in America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072 "2013-03-27T03:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/21 "2013-03-27T16:40:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I bet a lot of the skepticism about psychological disability is because a lot of it seems so… dramatic, for lack of a better term. We see the mentally handicapped people working as bag boys, checkers, stockers and greeters and other jobs at various companies, and wonder just how crazy you have to be to be judged disabled and unable to work because of your psychological condition. And based on what we see, to a lot of people, it seems like unless you’re running around naked with a bozo wig on your head, and a toilet plunger sticking out of your ass, you’re probably as capable of doing some kind of work as the mentally handicapped people. Yes, but I bet those mentally handicapped people show up every day, on time, and put in a full day’s work. If on random days one is simply unable to get out of bed, afraid to go outside, or in such pain that he/she has to use prescribed morphine just to be able to perform basic self-care, that’s a different story. Do a little research on fibromyalgia, bipolar disorder, and borderline personality disorder and you might view this differently. Based on my admittedly limited anecdotal sample, the people I know would absolutely love to be able to get out of bed every day and go to work. Some have tried, over and over again, to function in work situations and _every_ _damn_ time the disability gets them fired or forced to quit, sometimes landing them in the hospital. It’s very sad, and no one would choose to live that way if they could avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/22 "2013-03-27T16:43:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > In the OP it says $13,000 a year, which is $1083 a month, or more precisely, $500 biweekly. I’m guess there are deductions, but it still sounds like more than $650 a month. > > ETA: I see your amount is for someone who has never worked, or not worked much. So, it’s prorated depending on what you’ve paid in? Yes, it’s based in part on prior income. That’s still not much to live on, at least around here. Rents even in low-income areas are going to take up most of that, leaving a few hundred a month for utilities, food and clothing. I’m not saying a person couldn’t survive on that, but it’s not easy. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/23 "2013-03-27T16:49:43Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Yes, it’s based in part on prior income. That’s still not much to live on, at least around here. Rents even in low-income areas are going to take up most of that, leaving a few hundred a month for utilities, food and clothing. I’m not saying a person couldn’t survive on that, but it’s not easy. It can depend too on where you live. NJ does a better job than most in offering people ways to get by and I think every town I’ve lived in (3) has some sort of public housing which some 20-30 years after the Mt. Laurel decision is worthy of being called “housing” too. But for people on SSDI and who’ve never worked, you’re still not livin’ the good life. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/24 "2013-03-27T16:54:43Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > FYSA This American Life did a simular podcast this week on the same topic … I haven’t listened to the Planet Money podcast yet but on my way home tonight I will… I believe the Planet Money podcast was an abbreviated version of the _This American Life_ show (“_Trends with Benefits_”). ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/25 "2013-03-27T16:59:56Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > It can depend too on where you live. NJ does a better job than most in offering people ways to get by and I think every town I’ve lived in (3) has some sort of public housing which some 20-30 years after the Mt. Laurel decision is worthy of being called “housing” too. But for people on SSDI and who’ve never worked, you’re still not livin’ the good life. Yes, the subsidized public housing is a good thing. However, it’s not easy to get into. There are loooong waiting lists. If you already have a place to stay, such as a friend or relative’s spare room or living room sofa, you’re always at the bottom of the list. Definitely not something one would choose. When I hear people complaining about others being on SSDI, I am tempted to ask if they would voluntarily change places. Yeah, like I’d prefer to give up my sanity or my health in return for a thousand a month. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/26 "2013-03-27T17:01:52Z")
p.s. Link to the This American Life episode: > **[Trends With Benefits - This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/490/trends-with-benefits)** > > The startling rise of the number of people on disability in America. And here’s the written version (transcript?) with graphs: > **[Unfit for Work: The startling rise of disability in America](https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/)** > > In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job and new laws have banned workplace discrimination against the... ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/27 "2013-03-27T17:56:59Z")
> [@pinqy](#): > > There are approximately 2.5 million people receiving social security (old age or disability) who are working. That has nothing to do with what I said, or what the article is alleging. > [@pinqy](#): > > Besides the fact that some do work, including people not trying to work as unemployed would distort the picture of the labor market. Regardless of the reason for not looking, people not looking are not part of the labor market. But those people ARE often trying to work. That is part of the point of the article. In many cases, they can’t find work, and thus decide to go on disability. > [@pinqy](#): > > Official definition (as used by BLS in Labor Force Statistics, is BLS exludes from its numbers anyone in an institution, but they still count more than double the number of people receiving SSI, so while of course there are always exceptions, it doesn’t seem likely that there’s a whole lot of “fake” disabled. Just because there are more people who are technically disabled than people who claim disability checks means very little wrt how much fraud there is in the system. If anything, it shows how the definitions of “disabled” vary enough that many people who are disabled can and do work in spite of their disabilities even though the government would essentially pay them not to. Tax payers want to believe the people getting these checks truly are unable to work because of their disability, not that they choose not to because it not worth the effort. > [@pinqy](#): > > As far as economic viability, that’s not necessarily unfair. A back problem will not impair work for the jobs of most college graduates, but it will for most without a degree. Dude, did you even read the article? They point that out, and remark that the doctor’s system makes a certain amount of real world sense. The issue is that disability is not meant to support people who can’t find a job based on their lack of job skills. > [@pinqy](#): > > Not necessarily. The percent of the population classified by BLS as disabled as remained about the same over the last 5 years. So what’s more likely is that people who are disabled, but had jobs that could accomodate them, are now having a more difficult time finding such jobs and go on disability rather than Unemployment Insurance. That’s not the same thing as "not truly disabled) Again, that is likely true, which is basically the point. The system was designed to support people who cannot work; not those who can only work certain jobs that cater to them, their skill set, their limitations, and that only exist in good economic times, etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/28 "2013-03-27T18:06:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > But that doesn’t make them disabled, they just can’t find a job. Let me put it in another way: Lots of people with relatively minor disabilities have jobs, and do not show up in the statistics. When the economy goes bad, many of them lose their jobs and apply for disability. Later, they may find a job again. Or, they are married and their partner can support them when the economy is good. Most people don’t like to be on welfare, and avoid it if they can afford to. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/29 "2013-03-27T18:09:02Z")
> [@krunen](#): > > Let me put it in another way: Lots of people with relatively minor disabilities have jobs, and do not show up in the statistics. When the economy goes bad, many of them lose their jobs and apply for disability. Later, they may find a job again. Those people are not eleigible for SSDI, because their disability does not prevent them from working. ---
**Author:** ![skylyn12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@skylyn12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skylyn12)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/30 "2013-03-27T18:17:10Z")
Many of the people I have know who are on disability needed it (and sought it out) as an income for a stay at home parent. IE, because of childcare costs, working a minimum wage job for mom (or dad) was pointless, but they also couldn’t stay home without some sort of extra income… So they suddenly developed various, difficult to disprove, conditions. I think this is another area where some sort of inexpensive public (pre K) childcare would have an impact. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/31 "2013-03-27T18:18:51Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > I know a fair number of people on disability for psych reasons and although it pains me say to this, when I hear skepticism expressed about this sort of disability, it doesn’t really surprise me. In fact, if I’m going to be completely honest, eventhough well over 90% of my personal acquaintances would love to go back to work and where possible have done so part time (there is a wonderful program called ‘ticket to work’), I have known a rare few who certainly have issues they need to work through but don’t belong on the dole. > > Anyway, getting back to strictly physical disability, I don’t really understand how this one line doesn’t pretty much scuttle the entire article > > "When you are an adult applying for disability you have to prove you cannot function in a “work-like setting.” > > So of the examples I saw, diabetes, bypass, hypertension, how are any of those things preventing you from functioning in a work-like setting? I’ve worked with people with all of those problems. > > I just skimmed through so at some point is the author alleging outright corruption or something? Because if so, how does that work. I know that for psych disabilities the patient not only needs their own doctors records to use the right incantations but there is an independent review process. I know because I was the representative payee for someone for years, so that doesn’t really seem very likely to me. The “This American Life” episode fleshes some of this out. What seems to be happening is that there are a lot of people who have very limited skills, and those skills only allow them to take physically demanding jobs. What would be a minor inconvenience to me as a computer programmer would be a major problem to someone whose only skill was heavy lifting. One example I found interesting was when they interviewed one woman who said she was unable to perform any work. They asked her if she could do any job at all, what would she want to do. She said she would want to be the person at the Social Security office who decided who got benefits. Not because of the power she had, but simply because she got to sit all day. She didn’t know of any other jobs where one could work sitting down all day long. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/32 "2013-03-27T18:23:18Z")
> [@krunen](#): > > In a depressed economy with high unemployment, the employers will get rid of their least efficient workers, and these workers have problems getting new jobs. What were minor issues is now show-stoppers. > > **Why shouldn’t the definition of disability be that it hinders you from getting (and keeping) a job? What other definition should be used?** How about the definition being that you are physically or mentally unable to work. Not being being a productive, efficient, or valuable employee does not rise to the standard of a disability in the eyes of most. At least not one that should compel the state to take care of you forever with little to nothing in return. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > If people like that are the primary reason the disability rolls are filling up, it’s not some moral failure on the part of the workers that’s causing this. It’s a moral failure on the part of those who run this country, but think it’s more important to cut the deficit than get people back to work. I would not necessarily call it a moral failing on the part of the workers or the people who run this country. I don’t think anyone planned this, and few people on either side are operating in bad faith. The reality is that the market has led to lots of human capital being wasted, and that nobody really has a good plan to address it beyond pay them to stay hidden, or lock them in a cell. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > **krunen** ’s comment shows why this conclusion is nonsense. When unemployment is low, employers just have to suck it up and take what they can get, including employees with inconvenient but not incapacitating health issues. When unemployment is high, they can cut those people loose and find replacements. Thus, the exact same person with the exact same medical condition can be employable, or not, depending on the economic background. Again, nobody is disputing that this is the economic reality, just that we should nto therefore classify those people as disabled as it’s not a disability that prevents them from working. Let’s take an insane example. Let’s say the NHL finally decides to contract by removing 4 teams. Obviously, there will be fewer professional NHL hockey players as a result. Let’s say one of the guys is unable to find a new team is overlooked because he is thought to be too injury prone. Would you be okay with him going on disability ad infinitum because the economics of pro hockey changed in such a way to make him expendable? What if he wasn’t injury prone, but rather just too old, too relatively unskilled, or too whatever? Should anyone be able to go on disability just because the economic winds are not blowing in their favor? > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > There is another aspect to it: given our present system, with health care benefits depending on employers, why would an employer hire someone with diabetes, hypertension or a history of having had a heart bypass? It’s very likely to cost them extra money in lost productivity and increased health care benefits. You may have worked with such people, but once a person is unemployed and has those conditions, what are their chance of finding a job? Which is the real problem I was trying to highlight. I don’t think it helps (generally) to demonize these people. I think it’s more productive to discuss what should be done when we have a rapidly changing world that does not afford a growing minority of people to meaningfully contribute in an economic fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/33 "2013-03-27T18:25:52Z")
> [@skylyn12](#): > > Many of the people I have know who are on disability needed it (and sought it out) as an income for a stay at home parent. IE, because of childcare costs, working a minimum wage job for mom (or dad) was pointless, but they also couldn’t stay home without some sort of extra income… So they suddenly developed various, difficult to disprove, conditions. Such a disability is ineligible for SSDI. The burden of proof is on the applicant to meet the federal requirements for SSDI. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/34 "2013-03-27T18:31:30Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The “This American Life” episode fleshes some of this out. What seems to be happening is that there are a lot of people who have very limited skills, and those skills only allow them to take physically demanding jobs. What would be a minor inconvenience to me as a computer programmer would be a major problem to someone whose only skill was heavy lifting. > > One example I found interesting was when they interviewed one woman who said she was unable to perform any work. They asked her if she could do any job at all, what would she want to do. She said she would want to be the person at the Social Security office who decided who got benefits. Not because of the power she had, but simply because she got to sit all day. She didn’t know of any other jobs where one could work sitting down all day long. Thanks, but even in those cases, I’ve known a couple of people who have gotten training (one woman I remember got trained to do medical billing) while receiving benefits on the ticket to work program. Now granted, I don’t know how the program works and how much is funded through the state and how much by the feds. Maybe it’s all the state, but that would seem strange since they wouldn’t be getting anything out of it. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/35 "2013-03-27T19:55:19Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > How about the definition being that you are physically or mentally unable to work. So, for example, if you have one arm, you should not get disability, but if you have zero arms, you can? Do you really think the decisions doctors, bureaucrats and judges take are that easy? Take the 55 year old secretary who looses control over most of her fingers in her right hand in an accident. In a good economy, her boss keeps her on out of loyalty and friendship. When the economy goes bad, the higher-ups demand cuts, and unfortunately, she is the logical choice. We can argue about the number of working fingers required to be “able to work”, or we could let the market decide. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/36 "2013-03-27T20:00:45Z")
If you want to see folks who have made a career of gaming the system, watch, “The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.” It is interesting, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/37 "2013-03-27T20:17:37Z")
> [@krunen](#): > > So, for example, if you have one arm, you should not get disability, but if you have zero arms, you can? Do you really think the decisions doctors, bureaucrats and judges take are that easy? Yes, I do. At least, it appears to be pretty easy in many cases. Did you actually read the linked article? To highlight some of the more egregious examples of questionable conduct. > [@](#): > > But after I got interested in disability, I followed up with some of the guys to see what happened to them after the mill closed. One of them, Scott Birdsall, went to lots of meetings where he learned about retraining programs and educational opportunities. At one meeting, he says, a staff member pulled him aside. > > “Scotty, I’m gonna be honest with you,” the guy told him. “There’s nobody gonna hire you … We’re just hiding you guys.” The staff member’s advice to Scott was blunt: “Just suck all the benefits you can out of the system until everything is gone, and then you’re on your own.” [snip] > > Scott tried school for a while, but hated it. So he took the advice of the rogue staffer who told him to suck all the benefits he could out of the system. He had a heart attack after the mill closed and figured, “Since I’ve had a bypass, maybe I can get on disability, and then I won’t have worry to about this stuff anymore.” It worked; Scott is now on disability. Does this guy really seem like he CAN’T work or go to school or do something productive? Here’s another example: > [@](#): > > When you are an adult applying for disability you have to prove you cannot function in a “work-like setting.” When you are a kid, a disability can be anything that prevents you from progressing in school. Two-thirds of all kids on the program today have been diagnosed with mental or intellectual problems. > > Jahleel is a kid you can imagine doing very well for himself. He is delayed. But given the right circumstances and support, it’s easy to believe that over the course of his schooling Jahleel could catch up. > > Let’s imagine that happens. Jahleel starts doing better in school, overcomes some of his disabilities. He doesn’t need the disability program anymore. That would seem to be great for everyone, except for one thing: It would threaten his family’s livelihood. Jahleel’s family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability. > > Jahleel’s mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. **But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school.** This tension only increases as kids get older. **One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn’t want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check**. So clearly there is sometimes a disincentive to working if you are already on disability. > [@](#): > > A person on welfare costs a state money. That same resident on disability doesn’t cost the state a cent, because the federal government covers the entire bill for people on disability. So states can save money by shifting people from welfare to disability. And the Public Consulting Group is glad to help. > > PCG is a private company that states pay to comb their welfare rolls and move as many people as possible onto disability. [snip] > > There’s a reason PCG goes to all this trouble. The company gets paid by the state every time it moves someone off of welfare and onto disability. In recent contract negotiations with Missouri, PCG asked for $2,300 per person. For Missouri, that’s a deal – every time someone goes on disability, it means Missouri no longer has to send them cash payments every month. For the nation as a whole, it means one more person added to the disability rolls. The above is just one way we push people towards disability. > [@](#): > > In the past few decades, an entire disability-industrial complex has emerged. It has just one goal: Push more people onto disability. And, sometimes, it seems like the government is outmatched. This is especially true in the legal system. [snip] > > When he started in 1979, Binder represented fewer than 50 clients. Last year, his firm represented 30,000 people. Thirty thousand people who were denied disability appealed with the help of Charles Binder’s firm. In one year. Last year, Binder and Binder made $68.7 million in fees for disability cases. So clearly there are plenty of people who can work, but are encouraged not to. It doesn’t need to be some game where you try to talk about people with missing arms vs. those with no arms. The typical issues are usually far more clear cut. > [@krunen](#): > > Take the 55 year old secretary who looses control over most of her fingers in her right hand in an accident. In a good economy, her boss keeps her on out of loyalty and friendship. When the economy goes bad, the higher-ups demand cuts, and unfortunately, she is the logical choice. > > We can argue about the number of working fingers required to be “able to work”, or we could let the market decide. The market doesn’t decide. That is made abundantly clear in the article. More importantly, the market “deciding” you are not a valuable employee doesn’t make you disabled by any reasonable definition of the word. It’s one thing if you just want to call it welfare, but it does a disservice to everyone to pretend many of these people can’t work. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/38 "2013-03-27T21:09:36Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Yes, I do. At least, it appears to be pretty easy in many cases. Did you actually read the linked article? To highlight some of the more egregious examples of questionable conduct. Of course there is fraud. There is always fraud. Everywhere. It’s possible to reduce it, but you can’t avoid it. > [@](#): > > So clearly there is sometimes a disincentive to working if you are already on disability. > The above is just one way we push people towards disability. Yes, I agree. What should we do about it? I won’t agree with a solution that refuses aid to those who need and deserve it. I’d rather accept some fraud. > [@](#): > > The market doesn’t decide. That is made abundantly clear in the article. More importantly, the market “deciding” you are not a valuable employee doesn’t make you disabled by any reasonable definition of the word. Then come up with a strict definition usable in all cases. The borderline cases are where it gets interesting. If you can’t come up with it, maybe it doesn’t exist? Maybe it’s a subjective decision made by human actors in a changing world. > [@](#): > > It’s one thing if you just want to call it welfare, but it does a disservice to everyone to pretend many of these people can’t work. I don’t think anyone pretends that. It’s just that some people focus more on the fraud than all the help welfare actually gives to people who need it. And that is as it should be, as long as we can remember both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/39 "2013-03-27T21:42:23Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I would find the age distribution of people on disability to be interesting. You’ve got a lot of people in what would have been their last decade of working, who haven’t been able to find work in years and know they aren’t likely to be able to find work in time to make a difference. > > You undoubtedly have some of that group that have more than the usual share of physical problems for their age, but who would have kept working if they could have. But since they can’t, they’ll see if they can qualify for disability. I have two friends who began receiving SSDI within the past two years. Both of them formerly worked in IT, but were laid off on the wrong side of 50 years old, and both spent several years fruitlessly trying to find a new job. One has cerebral palsy; he functions very well, but he has very low manual dexterity, and clearly walks and moves oddly (which, frankly, is something which is probably going to freak out a lot of hiring managers). It didn’t keep him from being employed for 30 years (at the same employer for his entire career), but it was enough that SSI approved his disability claim on the first try (which, as I understand it, is pretty rare). The other had developed pretty bad arthritis throughout his body in the past few years, and that’s the disability on which SSI approved him, after about a year of working the case. However, both of them would much rather still be working, and only pursed SSDI after realizing that they weren’t going to get another job. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072/40 "2013-03-27T22:57:15Z")
I listened to the This American Life episode that covered this. It was pretty good. I was all ready to bash the fake-ass disabled people until they dug in deeper and realized that it is completely rational for someone with a bad back to apply for disability when their skills only qualify them for physical labor. The polly-anna-ish recommendation is for that person to go back to school so they can get a nice desk job with benefits. But this ignores the reality of not having income in the immediate future. No income for survival and no way to pay medical bills so that you could possibly no longer have a bad back. Thing is, that I can’t think of a practical solution to this. We will always have jobs that require physical labor and we will always have people who, for whatever reason, don’t have the skills to do other kinds of jobs. And if we take away the job requirement for welfare to pick up the unemployable masses, this is just transferring folks from one program to another. The only difference is that the states will carry the burden. Maybe we could create a job training program for those deemed mildly disabled so that people who can’t do one line of work can move into another. We could make participation a requirement for receiving financial assistance. But if I’m a 55-year-old janitor with two busted knees, am I really going to be able to get a job doing something else? What can I do? Become a receptionist? So I don’t know what can be done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planet-money-piece-unfit-for-work-the-startling-rise-of-disability-in-america/654072.md?page=3)