# PlanetFitness has a 'philosophy' that is ignorant and potentially dangerous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456 "2012-05-10T01:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/181 "2012-05-12T00:25:31Z")
> [@Bambro](#): > > God damn, you’re an annoying fucking twat…_snip_…STFU This will probably shock you, but I’ve been called a “twat” and worse many times before now. It will not drive me from commenting in threads I desire to comment in. If you have a problem with my presence here take it up with a mod. I do not bow to bullies in any form. I find it sad, but no longer do I find it shocking, that so many refuse to believe the disabled might, just might, experience discrimination in a gym setting. Or anywhere else. I do hope **Ambivalid** finds a suitable gym for his purposes where able-bodied people don’t park in the handicapped spots or do otherwise dickish things. I think I’ve suggested before that he should consider setting up a gym at his home, but perhaps he also enjoys some social contact while exercising. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/182 "2012-05-12T01:44:46Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > PF actually is a fitness club, though. It’s more like he wanted pizza and went to Little Caesar’s and now he’s pissed that it was Little Caesar’s. Which only sounds petty if you’ve never had Little Caesar’s. Hey! The pizza may suck, but don’t you DARE insult the glory that is Crazy Bread. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/183 "2012-05-12T01:50:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hey! The pizza may suck, but don’t you DARE insult the glory that is Crazy Bread. Never had Crazy Bread but I wonder if there isn’t some immutable law that the sum of a places breadsticks + pizza goodness can’t exceed a given amount. Cause Pizza Hut has decent sticks too but mediocre pizza. Cici’s has great sticks but pretty bad pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/184 "2012-05-12T02:30:29Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Cardio is better for your cardiovascular system than weights, and better for burning calories. There’s an argument for building muscle to increase your BMR, but this discussion is about someone who doesn’t want to build muscle for some reason\*, so cardio blows weights out of the water. > > You can get stronger without building muscle. Most people who don’t lift weights are stronger than they think, but their brains learn to not activate all their muscle fibers, since they don’t need to use them. During the first 6 months of weight lifting, your numbers will rocket up if you push yourself, because your brain is learning how to use all of your fibers. > > - you should want to build muscle. It has a ton of health benefits, and you won’t “look huge” unless you put a lot of effort into specifically looking huge. And simply burning calories, without respect to the specific _type_ of calorie being burned, is a silly, uninformed “goal” that produces sub-par results from that of which the trainer is expecting. By building muscle, which is metabolically much more active than fat, you allow your body to shift it’s energy-sources from precious lean muscle tissue to the unwanted fat stores that are what the trainer is wanting to rid themselves of in the first place. Endless cardio only burns so much fat; after a certain amount of time the body will resort to catabolism, or amino-acid breakdown, to fuel the session. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/185 "2012-05-12T03:16:08Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And simply burning calories, without respect to the specific _type_ of calorie being burned, is a silly, uninformed “goal” that produces sub-par results from that of which the trainer is expecting. I should say “usually”; or “in most cases”. For some, simply burning calories indiscriminately is the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/186 "2012-05-12T03:59:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think I’ve suggested before that he should consider setting up a gym at his home, but perhaps he also enjoys some social contact while exercising. Or, perhaps he enjoys finding situations that he can post about on SDMB. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > And simply burning calories, without respect to the specific _type_ of calorie being burned, is a silly, uninformed “goal” that produces sub-par results from that of which the trainer is expecting. By building muscle, which is metabolically much more active than fat, you allow your body to shift it’s energy-sources from precious lean muscle tissue to the unwanted fat stores that are what the trainer is wanting to rid themselves of in the first place. Endless cardio only burns so much fat; after a certain amount of time the body will resort to catabolism, or amino-acid breakdown, to fuel the session. Ok, perhaps I am completely off base here…because I’ll admit to being somewhat of a newbie at this whole fitness thing, only having really researched it for the last year. But I’m not completely sure this is correct: > [@](#): > > you allow your body to shift it’s energy-sources from precious lean muscle tissue to the unwanted fat stores that are what the trainer is wanting to rid themselves of in the first place. Endless cardio only burns so much fat; after a certain amount of time the body will resort to catabolism, or amino-acid breakdown, to fuel the session. I think that your first energy source is glycogen. Glycogen, from my understanding, is a sugar that is stored in your muscles and liver. It is the first energy source that your body goes to when it starts to need a jump. I was actually surprised to learn how much glycogen the average person has available. And, for endurance sports, one of the main goals is to teach the body to increase glycogen. The purpose of increasing glycogen is because it’s a readily available fuel. The fuel of second resort is fat. That’s why when you see a treadmill or something with a ‘Fat Burner’ setting, it’s kind of a joke. Your body won’t actually start to use fat as a fuel until it’s depleted its supply of glycogen. Fat is a slow fuel…glycogen is fast. If you’re in an endurance situation, it makes no sense for your body to go to fat first. So, your last source of fuel is for your body to start eating itself and wasting away…in other words, the last thing you start to lose is muscle. Protein is a bad fuel. I’ve seen the ‘cardio-burns-muscle’ meme before, repeated by body builders, but from what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem to stack up. And a calorie is a calorie…it’s not a physical piece of your body, it’s just a measurement of energy. I honestly have no idea what you mean by ‘type of calorie’. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/187 "2012-05-12T04:20:32Z")
**Sicks Ate** , you have it partly right. Fat and glycogen are burned at the same time. As you go up the exertion scale, the percentage of glycogen burned increases. One of the affects of endurance training is to increase the percentage of fat burned at a given exertion level, thus sparing glycogen and increasing the distance covered before depletion. The reason for the drastic slowdown after depletion is that fat can only be burned with oxygen, no anaerobic running here. Muscle is burned at all times though it’s a very small amount, appx. 5% of the calories burned though that can increase to as high as 15 % at glycogen depletion. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/188 "2012-05-12T05:32:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > This will probably shock you, but I’ve been called a “twat” and worse many times before now Erm Broomstick, no offence, but I really think you might want to try to avoid a setup line quite as inviting as the above. > [@](#): > > I find it sad, but no longer do I find it shocking, that so many refuse to believe the disabled might, just might, experience discrimination in a gym setting. And I don’t think anyone has said that they refuse to believe discrimination against the disabled happens. it’s just a case that they might like to see a bit of evidence that suggests it has happened before jumping to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/189 "2012-05-12T06:16:35Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Or, perhaps he enjoys finding situations that he can post about on SDMB. > > Ok, perhaps I am completely off base here…because I’ll admit to being somewhat of a newbie at this whole fitness thing, only having really researched it for the last year. > > But I’m not completely sure this is correct: > > I think that your first energy source is glycogen. Glycogen, from my understanding, is a sugar that is stored in your muscles and liver. It is the first energy source that your body goes to when it starts to need a jump. I was actually surprised to learn how much glycogen the average person has available. And, for endurance sports, one of the main goals is to teach the body to increase glycogen. > > The purpose of increasing glycogen is because it’s a readily available fuel. The fuel of second resort is fat. That’s why when you see a treadmill or something with a ‘Fat Burner’ setting, it’s kind of a joke. Your body won’t actually start to use fat as a fuel until it’s depleted its supply of glycogen. Fat is a slow fuel…glycogen is fast. If you’re in an endurance situation, it makes no sense for your body to go to fat first. > > So, your last source of fuel is for your body to start eating itself and wasting away…in other words, the last thing you start to lose is muscle. Protein is a bad fuel. > > I’ve seen the ‘cardio-burns-muscle’ meme before, repeated by body builders, but from what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem to stack up. And a calorie is a calorie…it’s not a physical piece of your body, it’s just a measurement of energy. I honestly have no idea what you mean by ‘type of calorie’. What I meant by “type of calorie” was what source the body used to get that energy-glycogen, fat or muscle. It wasn’t the best way to describe it, I’ll admit. And you are right, muscle is the very last thing the body will turn to for energy. I’m not saying ‘cardio burns muscle’; I’m saying too much cardio without compensating diet and/or resistance training does ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/190 "2012-05-12T06:25:45Z")
Combining the two gives excellerated results. Doing a weight-lifting workout when your glycogen stores are full gives you a nice pump and it burns some calories and depletes the glycogen. By then immediately going to your cardio session, the calories you burn from it come predominately from fat stores. By contrast, a cardio-only workout would have to be extended for however long it took to first deplete the glycogen stores _and then_ continue on into fat burning. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/191 "2012-05-12T06:47:50Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > **Sicks Ate** , you have it partly right. > Fat and glycogen are burned at the same time. As you go up the exertion scale, the percentage of glycogen burned increases. > One of the affects of endurance training is to increase the percentage of fat burned at a given exertion level, thus sparing glycogen and increasing the distance covered before depletion. > The reason for the drastic slowdown after depletion is that fat can only be burned with oxygen, no anaerobic running here. > Muscle is burned at all times though it’s a very small amount, appx. 5% of the calories burned though that can increase to as high as 15 % at glycogen depletion. Pat sounds more educated on the matter than myself. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/192 "2012-05-12T10:56:44Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > And I don’t think anyone has said that they refuse to believe discrimination against the disabled happens. it’s just a case that they might like to see a bit of evidence that suggests it has happened before jumping to that conclusion. The problem here are a handful of posters that in a prior thread called me delusional for saying my disabled spouse and I have had incredibly rude things said to us on account of his disability and apparently followed me into this thread to continue their tirade. I didn’t say **Ambivalid** was definitely discriminated against here, I just said I considered it as a _possibility_. PF is clearly a gym that discriminates against some categories of human beings (albeit “lunk heads” are not a protected class so it’s legal) so I have to wonder if that extends to other types of human beings. It’s hardly an unreasonable question to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/193 "2012-05-12T13:05:09Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I do NOT grunt when I lift, and I do NOT slam down weights-I’ve said this numerous times now. I believe you. Numerous times now! And, as proof, we should go back to your OP. > [@](#): > > When I’m done with the set, I _necessarily_ must drop the weights back to the floor, since I purposely put myself up high enough that I could fully extend my arms without the dumbbells hitting the floor. :smack: But it’s only like an inch or two. But why would you do that? Probably because of this: > [@Ambivalid](#): > > And finally, let’s look at my favorite: No dropping weights. This one is the real head-scratcher here. “Yes, I just _barely_ finished this set with 85lb dumbbells-I reached total muscular failure-but I will make sure I gently and delicately set them down ever so lightly back on the floor in order to ensure that it makes no noise.” Yea, cause that’s **possible.** :dubious: Again, PF is telling their members to never work to 100%; you go ahead and do that set, but make sure you save enough energy at the end to slowly control and lower the weights back to the ground-dropping isn’t allowed! Whomever created these policies never spent much time in a gym themselves. If they had, they would realize that such policies run totally counter to what a successful, _science-driven_ fitness center should hold. Anything more of the story you’d like to flesh out (aka modify (aka contradict))? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/194 "2012-05-12T14:48:45Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] PF is clearly a gym that discriminates against some categories of human beings (albeit “lunk heads” are not a protected class so it’s legal) so I have to wonder if that extends to other types of human beings. [/QUOTE] Asking people to refrain from certain types of behaviour is not discriminating against people. That really is a stupid analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/195 "2012-05-12T22:51:05Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Asking people to refrain from certain types of behaviour is not discriminating against people. That really is a stupid analogy. Not an analogy. It seems that PF kicks out people who appear like muscle-heads, saying that their clientele find such people intimidating. [Comedy Central The Daily Show Fan Page](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-14-2011/the-plight-of-muscled-americans) It’s not crazy to think that they enforce the rules preferentially for activist crips. Now you can call the report dubious or what have you.[1] But I see nothing unreasonable about Broomstick’s POV. Whether it is accurate is a separate issue that I’ll bow out of. I’ve never been to PF and don’t know a lot about gym culture. [1] …and there are conflicting reports: PF claims the guy was grunting. The guy claims other explanations. There are no third party witnesses. Either way, none of this is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/196 "2012-05-13T04:47:10Z")
The OP’s original post didn’t cast him in the most favorable light, as the negative responses to his complaints indicates. But after my experience with PF, I’m inclined to take him at his word. 1. I signed up for Planet Fitnessspecifically wearing and asking about Vibrams shoes, the only shoes I can run long distances in without pain. 2. I am asked to leave the gym less an a month after wearing signing up, for wearing those shoes, by a regional manage. I ask for a refund on my membership. 3. I email a company representative (contact info provided by the extremely friendly local manager). Two weeks later, I send a much angrier email after he doesn’t respond. he informs me that my membership has been canceled due to my ‘inappropriate behavior’ and another representative confirms that my membership was terminated earlier that week. 4. I follow up with thre representative who kicked me out, making clear that kicking me out (and keeping my deposit!) for an angry email is completely unacceptable. He _backdates my termination,_ changing the date of me termination to the day of the incident almost a month earlier, despite my possession of an email record indicating the contrary. 5. when I file a BBB complaint, they lied outright, claiming that the rep never said the Vibrams shoes were okay–despite email records claiming that they were unable to determine which representative I spoke to based on my vague description. PF are scum. It should be clear from the fact that thy ADVERTISE their propensity for Ejecting folks for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/197 "2012-05-13T12:41:30Z")
What the fuck? They have to approve the footwear of members?? What does that accomplish? If you are so soft as to be intimidated by someone else’s shoes in the gym you should fuck off and lock yourself in your basement for the rest of your pathetic life. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/198 "2012-05-13T12:50:13Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > If you are so soft as to be intimidated by someone else’s shoes in the gym you should fuck off and lock yourself in your basement for the rest of your pathetic life. So no business should ever cater to those with serious social and health disorders? Isn’t the problem that they’re already locked in their basements? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/199 "2012-05-13T13:17:25Z")
Every month has two new threads from Ambivalid about how he got kicked out of another business establishment by a guy who was _totally freakin’ unreasonable_. He’s a complete jackass. Ambivalid has exactly the reputation he deserves on this board, which is a whining, passive-aggressive bitch with a victim complex. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456/200 "2012-05-13T13:37:19Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > What the fuck? They have to approve the footwear of members?? What does that accomplish? I don’t know exactly what model of Vibrams he’s talking about and certainly don’t want to defend PF in any way, but my gym also has some footwear restrictions (no sandals/flip-flops, no black-soled shoes or sneakers, etc.) so I don’t think having a rule of some kind is particularly unusual for gyms. (There are supposed to be clothing restrictions too, but they didn’t seem to care about a couple of guys who frequently worked out in jeans and button-down shirts, and I guess those guys didn’t care that they looked pretty ridiculous.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planetfitness-has-a-philosophy-that-is-ignorant-and-potentially-dangerous/621456.md?page=11)