# Planned Parenthood sues anti-abortion group behind secret videos **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167 "2016-01-14T21:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/1 "2016-01-14T21:20:11Z")
> **[Planned Parenthood sues anti-abortion group behind secret videos](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos-msna773996)** > > In a new federal civil suit, Planned Parenthood says the Center for Medical Progress broke state and federal laws and endangered its providers. > [@](#): > > Exactly six months after the anti-abortion group Center for Medical Progress released its first secretly recorded video accusing Planned Parenthood of trafficking in fetal tissue, the women’s health provider has filed suit in a San Francisco federal district court. > > The suit alleges that the Center for Medical Progress and its contributors and advisers, who are individually named, broke federal and state laws, including the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, known as RICO, as well as invasion of privacy and recording laws. It asks for extensive monetary damages, saying Planned Parenthood providers have faced death threats, been forced to move or go into hiding and been picketed at their homes. > > “We are filing this lawsuit to hold accountable the people behind this reckless smear campaign,” said Kathy Kneer, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, on a call with reporters. > … > No criminal charges have been brought against any party. At least eight state investigations have turned up no impropriety from Planned Parenthood, and though California state Attorney General Kamala Harris said she would look at whether the Center for Medical Progress has broken state law, no charges have been announced. But under law, Planned Parenthood has the right to bring its own case. Does PP have a case? Did the Center for Medical Progress break the law? I’d love to see CMP have to pay through the nose for this. I’d also love to see some of the individuals face criminal charges if appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/2 "2016-01-14T21:24:40Z")
So letting the public know the truth about what a government-funded organization does should be punished with criminal charges? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/3 "2016-01-14T21:25:47Z")
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, to my untrained legal eye what they did looks an awful lot like libel: deliberately editing a tape in order to misrepresent a person’s position seems to violate the spirit of libel laws, and if it doesn’t violate the letter of the law, I’d like to see a change to such a law. On the other hand, I think that our society is well-served by **honest** undercover journalism, and undercover journalism needs access to tools like hidden recording instruments. I don’t at all like the idea of laws, such as North Carolina’s new [Ag Gag law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag#North_Carolina), that stifle reporters’ ability to do their jobs. So: yay to suing them for defamation, fraud, whatever. Boo to suing them for undercover recordings. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So letting the public know the truth about what a government-funded organization does should be punished with criminal charges? What a total and complete non sequitur. CMP did nothing remotely like letting the public know the truth. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/4 "2016-01-14T21:48:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What a total and complete non sequitur. CMP did nothing remotely like letting the public know the truth. Prior to the release of the videos, Planned Parenthood sold parts of aborted fetuses to research firms. The great majority of Americans did not know this. The Center for Medical Progress filmed executives and doctors from Planned Parenthood describing the processes they use to obtain fetal tissue, and saying that they earn income from doing so. Here’s one unedited video: After that, most Americans knew the truth about what Planned Parenthood was doing. After the release of the videos, [Planned Parenthood said](http://www.wsj.com/articles/planned-parenthood-stops-taking-reimbursements-for-fetal-tissue-1444744800) that they would no longer charge money for fetal tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/5 "2016-01-14T21:50:28Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Prior to the release of the videos, Planned Parenthood sold parts of aborted fetuses to research firms. This is inaccurate. To be clear, you are accusing Planned Parenthood of [violating federal law](http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/policy/publiclaw103-43.htm.html). Despite a tremendous amount of politically-motivated investigation into the matter, every investigating body that has drawn a conclusion has concluded that Planned Parenthood did not violate the law. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/6 "2016-01-14T22:08:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Prior to the release of the videos, Planned Parenthood sold parts of aborted fetuses to research firms. The great majority of Americans did not know this. The Center for Medical Progress filmed executives and doctors from Planned Parenthood describing the processes they use to obtain fetal tissue, and saying that they earn income from doing so. Here’s one unedited video: > > After that, most Americans knew the truth about what Planned Parenthood was doing. After the release of the videos, [Planned Parenthood said](http://www.wsj.com/articles/planned-parenthood-stops-taking-reimbursements-for-fetal-tissue-1444744800) that they would no longer charge money for fetal tissue. This is exactly why what they did was wrong. By dishonestly editing the videos, they misled people like you so that you now believe libelous things about Planned Parenthood and its employees. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/7 "2016-01-14T22:25:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So letting the public know the truth . . . But, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/8 "2016-01-14T22:26:02Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So letting the public know the truth about what a government-funded organization does should be punished with criminal charges? People who commit crimes should be punished with criminal charges, yes. I am not taking a position on whether or not this was a criminal act, though given that the group is associated with James O’Keefe it wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/9 "2016-01-14T23:30:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is inaccurate. To be clear, you are accusing Planned Parenthood of [violating federal law](http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/policy/publiclaw103-43.htm.html). Despite a tremendous amount of politically-motivated investigation into the matter, every investigating body that has drawn a conclusion has concluded that Planned Parenthood did not violate the law. The law allows abortion provides to give fetal tissue to use for medical research and to charge for the cost of storing and shipping the tissue, but not any more than that. Did they charge more than that? The executive in the first video I linked to certainly suggests it. Likewise the executive in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwAGsjoorvk). You say no investigation has produced a conviction. It’s my understanding that that’s true, but they are ongoing. In any case, all that the Center of Medical Progress was record the executives talking on camera. You accuse CPM of “deliberately editing a tape in order to misrepresent a person’s position” and suggest that it might be libel, though Planned Parenthood’s lawsuit is not for libel. To convict someone of libel in court, though, you actually have to provide evidence. “The internet told me so” probably wouldn’t cut the mustard with a judge. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/10 "2016-01-14T23:31:47Z")
The RICO claim seems a bit thin. I welcome education on this point, however – it could well be that I’m not hip to all the implications of private actions under RICO. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/11 "2016-01-14T23:34:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This is exactly why what they did was wrong. By dishonestly editing the videos, they misled people like you so that you now believe libelous things about Planned Parenthood and its employees. The two videos that I linked to are not dishonestly edited. Try watching themself, then you might know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/12 "2016-01-15T00:18:34Z")
I’m also not crazy about the idea of suing over violation of privacy/secret recording, which should be protected as much as possible if part of an honest effort at investigative reporting. Proving smear/libel through bogus editing or other means is a different story. Planned Parenthood has not been found to have violated the law on selling fetal tissue for research, and I highly doubt it ever will be. If any PP officials did charge more than reasonable storage/processing/shipping fees (determining what “reasonable” is would be highly subjective) and plowed those funds back into offering more health services for women, I’m not bothered at all by that, even if someone calls it “profiting”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/13 "2016-01-15T00:24:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The two videos that I linked to are not dishonestly edited. Try watching themself, then you might know what you’re talking about. Are they the videos that are the subject of so much discussion? Because if you’re trying to bait and switch here–linking to the unedited videos which were released only after the initial controversy was started with the edited videos–that’s a bit less than best practices in debate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/14 "2016-01-15T00:25:22Z")
Sounds like libel to me. I don’t know how the laws apply in a case like this but it looks like a deliberate and malicious attempt to defame Planned Parenthood. Under scrutiny maybe that’s not what it is, that’s why we have courts. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/15 "2016-01-15T01:29:03Z")
If I’m not mistaken, depending on the state, secretly recording conversations could be illegal, right? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/16 "2016-01-15T02:56:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are they the videos that are the subject of so much discussion? Because if you’re trying to bait and switch here–linking to the unedited videos which were released only after the initial controversy was started with the edited videos–that’s a bit less than best practices in debate. I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to imply here. Center for Medical Progress released a series of videos. At least for some of them, there was a longer unedited version and a shorted edited version focusing on the most consequential parts of the conversation. For the first video, both versions were released at the same time: [Short version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxwVuozMnU) [Long version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ) The date stamps on both videos is July 14, as you can see. For the second video: [Short version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCs_gvImyw) [Long version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwAGsjoorvk) Both released on July 21. So your claim that the unedited videos were released after the controversy started would appear to be untrue, at least in these two cases. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/17 "2016-01-15T03:11:44Z")
While it is legal to recoup reasonable costs associated with donating tissue, the Planned Parenthood executive clearly negotiates the price of acquiring the fetal tissue in the video. Planned Parenthood by law must set the price because the buyer cannot know exactly what costs are involved such as what they pay the doctors, nurses, rent, and other overhead. Therefore what they did is illegal. One should also consider the consequences of monetizing or profiting from fetal tissue. What are you going say when poor women of color are encouraged or coerced into having abortions to meet some sales quota or perhaps tricked into abortions by telling them their babies will be severely deformed when there is no indication they will be? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/18 "2016-01-15T07:17:22Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So letting the public know the truth about what a government-funded organization does should be punished with criminal charges? No, but lying about what that government-funded private organization does in a way that significantly hampers its public image and causes it quite a lot of problems might be. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Prior to the release of the videos, Planned Parenthood sold parts of aborted fetuses to research firms. [Here’s a short list of state-level investigations showing quite clearly that no, Planned Parenthood did not “sell” parts of aborted fetuses](http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/24/growing-list-of-planned-parenthood-investigatio/205116). You’re just wrong, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/19 "2016-01-15T07:18:50Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > While it is legal to recoup reasonable costs associated with donating tissue, the Planned Parenthood executive clearly negotiates the price of acquiring the fetal tissue in the video. Planned Parenthood by law must set the price because the buyer cannot know exactly what costs are involved such as what they pay the doctors, nurses, rent, and other overhead. Therefore what they did is illegal. Maybe you should tell that to the legislatures of Indiana, South Dakota, Georgia, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida, Missouri, and Washington? > [@](#): > > One should also consider the consequences of monetizing or profiting from fetal tissue. What are you going say when poor women of color are encouraged or coerced into having abortions to meet some sales quota or perhaps tricked into abortions by telling them their babies will be severely deformed when there is no indication they will be? One should also consider offering a source for outrageous claims. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/20 "2016-01-15T11:36:43Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to imply here. Center for Medical Progress released a series of videos. At least for some of them, there was a longer unedited version and a shorted edited version focusing on the most consequential parts of the conversation. For the first video, both versions were released at the same time: > > [Short version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxwVuozMnU) > [Long version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ) > > The date stamps on both videos is July 14, as you can see. For the second video: > > [Short version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCs_gvImyw) > [Long version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwAGsjoorvk) > > Both released on July 21. So your claim that the unedited videos were released after the controversy started would appear to be untrue, at least in these two cases. What does any of this have to do with the video you linked to upthread, released on September 15? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167.md?page=2)