# Planned Parenthood sues anti-abortion group behind secret videos **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167 "2016-01-14T21:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/21 "2016-01-15T12:30:42Z")
So, on poking around, it appears that I may have erred in saying that the unedited videos were released after the edited ones. Previously when I’ve looked into ITR’s cited claims, I’ve nearly always found that his cites did not support his claims, and I remain suspicious that this time I’ve missed something important. But I know one thing that’s important: to admit when I’m wrong. So I retract the claim that the unedited videos were released after the edited ones. This, of course, does not affect the point that the edited videos were the ones discussed far more than the unedited ones, and that if we’re talking about whether CMP engaged in deceptive speech against PP, we must look both at the edited and unedited videos. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/22 "2016-01-15T13:48:15Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > What are you going say when poor women of color are encouraged or coerced into having abortions to meet some sales quota or perhaps tricked into abortions by telling them their babies will be severely deformed when there is no indication they will be? To be fair, Planned Parenthood execs are undoubtedly pressuring white women into unnecessary abortions as well, to raise money for luxury office furniture and junkets to the Caribbean. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/23 "2016-01-15T13:52:46Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > While it is legal to recoup reasonable costs associated with donating tissue, the Planned Parenthood executive clearly negotiates the price of acquiring the fetal tissue in the video. Planned Parenthood by law must set the price because the buyer cannot know exactly what costs are involved such as what they pay the doctors, nurses, rent, and other overhead. Therefore what they did is illegal. > > One should also consider the consequences of monetizing or profiting from fetal tissue. What are you going say when poor women of color are encouraged or coerced into having abortions to meet some sales quota or perhaps tricked into abortions by telling them their babies will be severely deformed when there is no indication they will be? Great user name. Unfortunately, the post is not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/24 "2016-01-15T14:46:00Z")
Holy crap. People are so goddamn _blind_ when it comes to Planned Parenthood. Personally I hope they are able to sue that shit-spewing organization into oblivion. It’s the _American_ way. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/25 "2016-01-15T15:34:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Holy crap. People are so goddamn _blind_ when it comes to Planned Parenthood. > > Personally I hope they are able to sue that shit-spewing organization into oblivion. It’s the _American_ way. Mind expanding on that a little, or just driving by? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/26 "2016-01-15T15:59:29Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > No, but lying about what that government-funded private organization does in a way that significantly hampers its public image and causes it quite a lot of problems might be. > > [Here’s a short list of state-level investigations showing quite clearly that no, Planned Parenthood did not “sell” parts of aborted fetuses](http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/24/growing-list-of-planned-parenthood-investigatio/205116). You’re just wrong, dude. I haven’t looked at each investigation. But to take one example, the Massachusetts investigation concluded that Planned Parenthood of Massachusetts broke no laws. Indeed: the Massachusetts PP does not have a tissue donation program! So my question would be: Did any videos implicate Massachusetts Planned Parenthood members? If they did, then the investigation exonerates them. If no videos purport to show Massachusetts PP staff selling remains, then the Massachusetts investigation isn’t relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/27 "2016-01-15T16:08:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I haven’t looked at each investigation. But to take one example, the Massachusetts investigation concluded that Planned Parenthood of Massachusetts broke no laws. > > Indeed: the Massachusetts PP does not have a tissue donation program! > > So my question would be: Did any videos implicate Massachusetts Planned Parenthood members? If they did, then the investigation exonerates them. If no videos purport to show Massachusetts PP staff selling remains, then the Massachusetts investigation isn’t relevant. I see what you’re saying. However, it’s kind of interesting that three states include PP affiliates that donate tissue for research, and 11 states have launched investigations into PP. This points to the absurd witch-hunt aspect of these investigations. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/28 "2016-01-15T16:19:23Z")
It’s not a witch-hunt. In witch-hunts they were actually trying to catch witches, albeit ineffectively. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/29 "2016-01-15T16:24:45Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So letting the public know the truth about what a government-funded organization does should be punished with criminal charges? The fact that it was not “the truth” in any way, shape, or form is what is at issue, and does deserve to be punished. Groups like this are deliberately and maliciously misrepresenting their case in an effort to deny women the health care that they need and deserve, all for the goal of pushing their primitive Hebrew superstitions onto people who may or may not share those same beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/30 "2016-01-15T16:27:28Z")
It’s got nothing to do with Hebrew superstitions. Talmudic law allowed for abortion until “the quickening,” AIUI. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/31 "2016-01-15T16:38:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, on poking around, it appears that I may have erred in saying that the unedited videos were released after the edited ones. Previously when I’ve looked into ITR’s cited claims, I’ve nearly always found that his cites did not support his claims, and I remain suspicious that this time I’ve missed something important. But I know one thing that’s important: to admit when I’m wrong. So I retract the claim that the unedited videos were released after the edited ones. Well knock me over with a feather. > [@](#): > > This, of course, does not affect the point that the edited videos were the ones discussed far more than the unedited ones, and that if we’re talking about whether CMP engaged in deceptive speech against PP, we must look both at the edited and unedited videos. Let’s get some facts. Numerous posters in this thread have said or implied that the Center for Medical Progress committed libel, but Planned Parenthood is not suing over libel. The lawsuit claims invasion of privacy and other illegal activities were used to obtain the videos. It does not claim that anything in the videos incorrectly depicts what Planned Parenthood executives and doctors actually said. To win a libel lawsuit, you need to prove that the target of the lawsuit actually published a deliberate lie. Center for Medical Progress’s videos did not say anything false. Nobody in this thread has provided any evidence that they did. Deceptive editing of videos is certainly a thing. ([Michael Moore comes to mind](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZmE-PpSVupgJ:www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), yet oddly I don’t see any liberals demanding that he be criminally prosecuted.) No one has provided any evidence that the CMP videos were edited deceptively. They were merely edited for length. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/32 "2016-01-15T16:40:39Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > The fact that it was not “the truth” in any way, shape, or form is what is at issue, and does deserve to be punished. Cite, please. > [@](#): > > Groups like this are deliberately and maliciously misrepresenting their case in an effort to deny women the health care that they need and deserve, all for the goal of pushing their primitive Hebrew superstitions onto people who may or may not share those same beliefs. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/33 "2016-01-15T16:59:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > No one has provided any evidence that the CMP videos were edited deceptively. They were merely edited for length. Without going back to watch the videos, the first one I saw was interspersed with video of a congressional testimony explaining that the selling of fetal tissue is illegal, and had text overlaid that would set up an uninformed viewer with the idea that PP is selling fetal tissue in violation of federal law. Now I myself didn’t get that impression, but the way I came across the video was by reading the explanation of what was going on before I watched it, so I could see their deceptive tactics play out. But I know that many many people did get the intended impression. Whether the editing crosses the line into the legal definition of libel, I don’t know, but it’s quite clear that the intentions of the editing were to give the viewer an impression of something that wasn’t actually true. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/34 "2016-01-15T17:02:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I see what you’re saying. However, it’s kind of interesting that three states include PP affiliates that donate tissue for research, and 11 states have launched investigations into PP. This points to the absurd witch-hunt aspect of these investigations. Absolutely. Obviously I am pro-life. But the tactics of many of my fellow travelers here are disenheartening. An investigation when there’s some credible evidence of wring-dong is fine. Here, the watchword seemed to be, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and where there’s no smoke, isn’t that suspicious too?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/35 "2016-01-15T17:06:04Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > …but it’s quite clear that the intentions of the editing were to give the viewer an impression of something that wasn’t actually true. I agree. But maybe I’m wrong. So I invite **ITR** , or anyone that thinks I am wrong, to give me a specific state and a specific allegation of wrongdoing on PP’s part involving selling fetal tissue. Perhaps I will learn something. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/36 "2016-01-15T17:07:22Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Well knock me over with a feather. Oh, come on. This is unnecessarily rude. **LHoD** posts a correction and a retraction, and you have to be jerky about it? Acknowledging a screwup can be difficult, as I have no doubt you understand. Do you really want to discourage it? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/37 "2016-01-15T17:11:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > An investigation when there’s some credible evidence of wring-dong is fine. In which states is wringing your dong illegal again? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/38 "2016-01-15T17:13:49Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > In which states is wringing your dong illegal again? Well, pretty much all of them if you do it in public. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/39 "2016-01-15T17:24:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. > > But maybe I’m wrong. So I invite **ITR** , or anyone that thinks I am wrong, to give me a specific state and a specific allegation of wrongdoing on PP’s part involving selling fetal tissue. Perhaps I will learn something. There was _one_ state where a fetal-tissue-related investigation determined that PP was guilty of some sort of wrongdoing, though that wrongdoing was completely unrelated to the fetal tissue sales scandal. Accounting irregularities or something like that? I want to say it was a Midwestern state - Ohio or Wisconsin, perhaps? And Florida’s investigation [found essentially unrelated wrongdoing](http://www.wsj.com/articles/florida-investigation-of-planned-parenthood-clinics-finds-deficiencies-1438817376) after Scott political appointees rewrote the agency findings to include new definitions for some existing rules. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/40 "2016-01-15T17:25:54Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Prior to the release of the videos, Planned Parenthood sold parts of aborted fetuses to research firms. The great majority of Americans did not know this. No, they didn’t. Accepting reimbursement for donations at or below the cost of providing the donation isn’t a sale. > [@](#): > > The Center for Medical Progress filmed executives and doctors from Planned Parenthood describing the processes they use to obtain fetal tissue, and saying that they earn income from doing so. Here’s one unedited video: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7VbmHXwcU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7VbmHXwcU) That’s a video, all right. By all means, quote the admission that tissue donation earns income, or at least provide the timestamp. > [@](#): > > After that, most Americans knew the truth about what Planned Parenthood was doing. After the release of the videos, [Planned Parenthood said](http://www.wsj.com/articles/planned-parenthood-stops-taking-reimbursements-for-fetal-tissue-1444744800) that they would no longer charge money for fetal tissue. Yes, now they will donate at even more of a financial loss. A victory for those who want to further weaken abortion services. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167.md?page=3)