# Planned Parenthood sues anti-abortion group behind secret videos **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167 "2016-01-14T21:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/41 "2016-01-15T17:44:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. > > But maybe I’m wrong. So I invite **ITR** , or anyone that thinks I am wrong, to give me a specific state and a specific allegation of wrongdoing on PP’s part involving selling fetal tissue. Perhaps I will learn something. Other [lawyers don’t necessarily agree with you](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-questions-planned-parenthood-videos-disturbing-120768)about the impropriety of investigating the processes of distributing fetal tissue. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/42 "2016-01-15T17:51:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Other [lawyers don’t necessarily agree with you](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-questions-planned-parenthood-videos-disturbing-120768)about the impropriety of investigating the processes of distributing fetal tissue. Well that’ a non-story if ever I saw one. Back in July, when the videos were all in the news, an obviously uninformed Hilary Clinton said “I have seen pictures from them and obviously find them disturbing.” Wait, she saw pictures from the video that were disturbing? What the hell did she see? Did the lady on hidden camera use the wrong fork for her salad or something? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/43 "2016-01-15T17:54:01Z")
Well, the jerks tried to publicly embarrass Planned Parenthood. I find I’m okay with PP trying to publicly embarrass the jerks. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/44 "2016-01-15T17:54:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Other [lawyers don’t necessarily agree with you](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-questions-planned-parenthood-videos-disturbing-120768)about the impropriety of investigating the processes of distributing fetal tissue. > > Regards, > Shodan Is this your money quote from that article? > [@](#): > > " And this raises not questions about Planned Parenthood so much as it raises questions about the whole process, that is, not just involving Planned Parenthood, but many institutions in our country,” the Democratic frontrunner said. “And if there’s going to be any kind of congressional inquiry, it should look at everything and not just one (organization).” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/45 "2016-01-15T17:58:05Z")
In practical terms, this lawsuit is Christmas for the CMP, right? With Planned Parenthood having put the accuracy of the videos at issue, the CMP will now get to turn PP upside down, I assume, taking discovery into all aspects of the organization’s finances and handling of fetal tissue, seeing every transaction and reading every email about every transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/46 "2016-01-15T18:00:24Z")
“It’s improprietous to investigate these allegations” - no one. Of course you investigate allegations of wrongdoing - but when the investigations turn up nothing, it’s fair game to speculate that the allegations were lies all along. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/47 "2016-01-15T18:05:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > …Deceptive editing of videos is certainly a thing. ([Michael Moore comes to mind](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZmE-PpSVupgJ:www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), yet oddly I don’t see any liberals demanding that he be criminally prosecuted.)… Oh, no, he played the “liberal hypocrisy” card! Curses, foiled again! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/48 "2016-01-15T18:05:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > In practical terms, this lawsuit is Christmas for the CMP, right? With Planned Parenthood having put the accuracy of the videos at issue, the CMP will now get to turn PP upside down, I assume, taking discovery into all aspects of the organization’s finances and handling of fetal tissue, seeing every transaction and reading every email about every transaction. No. It’s not a (classic) defamation or false light suit, at least based on the OP’s link; I haven’t seen the actual complaint. It’s an invasion of privacy and illegal recording suit, so the truth of the allegations is not at issue. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/49 "2016-01-15T18:12:54Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > In practical terms, this lawsuit is Christmas for the CMP, right? With Planned Parenthood having put the accuracy of the videos at issue, the CMP will now get to turn PP upside down, I assume, taking discovery into all aspects of the organization’s finances and handling of fetal tissue, seeing every transaction and reading every email about every transaction. IANAL, but my guess is no and probably why they aren’t suing for libel. The organization’s finances and tissue handling procedures has nothing to do with whether these videos were legally made and distributed. From the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > “The content of these videos was wrongfully and illegally obtained,” the complaint says. “Moreover, according to expert forensic analysis, Defendants’ heavily edited short videos and transcripts do not present a complete or accurate record of the events they purport to depict. Rather, the heavily edited short videos “significantly distort and misrepresent the conversations depicted.” or what RNATB said. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/50 "2016-01-15T18:31:05Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Oh, come on. This is unnecessarily rude. **LHoD** posts a correction and a retraction, and you have to be jerky about it? Acknowledging a screwup can be difficult, as I have no doubt you understand. Do you really want to discourage it? In his defense, he may have been gobsmacked by the epiphany that admitting to an error is a thing a person can do. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/51 "2016-01-15T18:48:03Z")
WHEN Planned Parenthood wins, I’m taking all of you out for abortions! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/52 "2016-01-15T19:08:18Z")
Can we instead get miniature American flags? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/53 "2016-01-15T19:19:51Z")
[FactCheck.org:](http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/) > [@](#): > > Republicans made their claims following the release of a secretly recorded video showing Deborah Nucatola, the senior director of medical services at Planned Parenthood, discussing the procurement of fetal tissues when conducting abortions. The edited video, released July 14 by an anti-abortion group called the Center for Medical Progress, leaves the impression that Nucatola is talking about Planned Parenthood affiliates making money from fetal tissue. But the edited video ignores other things Nucatola said that contradict that idea. > > At one point in the unedited video (which was also released by the group), Nucatola says: “Affiliates are not looking to make money by doing this. They’re looking to serve their patients and just make it not impact their bottom line.” > > Nucatola also says, “No one’s going to see this as a money making thing.” And at another point, she says, “Our goal, like I said, is to give patients the option without impacting our bottom line. The messaging is this should not be seen as a new revenue stream, because that’s not what it is.” > > The footage was recorded secretly during a lunch meeting on July 25, 2014, between Nucatola and two people posing as employees of a company looking to procure fetal tissue for research purposes. > > While eating a salad and drinking red wine, she casually discusses which tissues are valued by researchers and how to preserve those tissues while conducting abortions. Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards has apologized for Nucatola’s “tone” and manner of speaking, which House Speaker John Boehner condemned as “cavalier” in calling for a congressional investigation. > > In the edited video, Nucatola says the cost for fetal tissue specimens was between $30 and $100, “depending on the facility and what’s involved.” She defined “specimen” as, “one case. One patient.” > > \ > > Nucatola’s comment, though, isn’t evidence that Planned Parenthood or its affiliates are selling “body parts” or fetal tissue for profit. The full video shows that after Nucatola mentions the $30 to $100, she describes how those amounts would be reimbursement for expenses related to handling and transportation of the tissues. Nucatola talks about “space issues” and whether shipping would be involved ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/54 "2016-01-15T19:41:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. It’s not a (classic) defamation or false light suit, at least based on the OP’s link; I haven’t seen the actual complaint. It’s an invasion of privacy and illegal recording suit, so the truth of the allegations is not at issue. > [@CarnalK](#): > > IANAL, but my guess is no and probably why they aren’t suing for libel. The organization’s finances and tissue handling procedures has nothing to do with whether these videos were legally made and distributed. > > or what RNATB said. That makes sense, and most of the complaint ([here](http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachment.aspx?EID=mr9WXYw4u2IxYnni1dBRVsyFeJIuuWQv%2btbEt05Givo%3d)) looks like it was designed that way. However, it does allege that the CMP fraudulently misrepresented PP’s operations to the public, at paras. 121-24, and Count VII, at para. 196, alleges that one of the unlawful business practices of the CMP was “deceiving the public through misrepresentations and misleading statements as to the nature and legality of Planned Parenthood’s practices.” They may have opened their doors. Separately, I wonder if pleading around defamation means they will have a problem proving causation. CMP will argue that the various harms they are alleging didn’t come about because of the alleged false representations to gain entry to meetings, but because of the alleged misrepresentation to the public of PP’s operations. It also seems to me that damages may be hard to prove. Most of what they allege as harm consists of supervening (i.e., independent) criminal actions, and my recollection is that those are not ascribed to a civil defendant even when foreseeable. And I don’t know that undergoing an official investigation can be called damages, if the investigating body was acting within its purview. It’s a good set of law school questions in some ways. **RNATB** , I would be interested in your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/55 "2016-01-15T19:56:03Z")
I probably won’t have time to read the whole complaint today, but the parts I skimmed suggest that all the normally-supervening criminal acts are supposed to have been done at the behest of the defendants rather than outside the scope of the “investigation.” So they would be directly liable for those, if not vicariously liable under a _respondeat superior_ theory. I see your point on paragraph 121-124, but on reflection, I don’t think PP is trying to avoid opening its books and practices after all. It knows its local affiliates are largely in the clear due to the state investigations, and now it gets to prove it in open court. Having said that, I suspect that portion of the complaint will be disposed of at the summary judgment stage; motivating outside anti-abortion activitists to do bad things is not actionable. Actually, it occurs to me that those might be the supervening harms you referenced now. :smack: But that goes back to my previous point: PP can show damages in the form of the state funding that has been withdrawn, though the causal link is somewhat tenuous. But it may not care about damages at all; the suit is a handy vehicle for clearing its name. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/56 "2016-01-19T18:23:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > WHEN Planned Parenthood wins, I’m taking all of you out for abortions! 😃 Medium rare, please. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/57 "2016-01-25T23:28:28Z")
Planned Parenthood cleared, activists indicted. In Texas, no less. Can I have a margarita instead of an abortion? > **[Anti-abortion activists indicted in Texas for Planned Parenthood video](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-plannedparenthood-texas-idUSKCN0V32QD)** > > Two anti-abortion activists behind the filming of videos on fetal tissue procurement by Planned Parenthood were indicted by a Texas grand jury on Monday, while clearing the women's health group of any wrong-doing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/58 "2016-01-26T01:12:27Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Planned Parenthood cleared, activists indicted. In Texas, no less. Yeah, this is pretty interesting. A Republican DA who started off investigating PP ended up presenting evidence to a grand jury sufficient to have CMP activists indicted. I think it’s a good time to laud some Republicans for integrity: this DA shows every sign of being a person of integrity, inasmuch as he clearly let facts on the ground change his mind. (A similar circumstance might be if a Democratic DA, under other circumstances, prosecuted PETA activists for similar crimes–although the analogy breaks down due to extremist influences, but that’s another discussion). I’m really curious to see what the “tampering with a government record” charge consists of. If it’s fake documents they used to gain access to PP, I don’t much care, and might even oppose the charge based on the general benefits of undercover journalism (“might” being a key word there, would need to know specifics). If it’s tampering in the sense that they engaged in deceit sufficient to lead to investigations of Planned Parenthood, I’m much more pleased with the charges; while I support undercover journalism, I absolutely don’t support bearing false witness. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/59 "2016-01-26T01:28:52Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Planned Parenthood cleared, activists indicted. In Texas, no less. > > Can I have a margarita instead of an abortion? > [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-plannedparenthood-texas-idUSKCN0V32QD](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-plannedparenthood-texas-idUSKCN0V32QD) Sorry, that’s a criminal indictment, not a civil suit finding. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167/60 "2016-01-26T02:40:40Z")
He didn’t say it was a civil suit finding. He said the grand jury had cleared the Planned Parenthood operatives (who the probe was initially aimed at). I was assuming Harris County was the one with Austin in it (which is a bastion of [del]sanity[/del] liberal thought), but it turns out it’s where Houston is. So this _is_ quite a shock. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planned-parenthood-sues-anti-abortion-group-behind-secret-videos/743167.md?page=4)