# Planning a trip to England/Ireland/Scotland (first time overseas) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466 "2003-12-07T01:02:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/21 "2003-12-07T22:47:14Z")
Go to the Yorkshire Dales. They are stunning. Go to Camden Market (and indeed other parts of Camden) in London, it’s a really distinctive place. I also like the atmosphere and such of Soho. Oh and regarding Wales, I would recommend Nolton and that area, near Haverford West (sp) in Pembrokshire. some great beaches. That tube link doesn’t mention elevators!: stand on the right, walk on the left. (lmao at “north of London”. sorry.) Other cities: Brighton, Manchester, Edinburgh… ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/22 "2003-12-07T23:17:42Z")
No one mentioned Scotland yet, so based on my one week there (waiting for someone who knows more to correct me) I would recommend Oban on the west coast. It is a “tourist” town, but not in the American sense. By my standards, it was downright quaint. I loved it. If you read the James Herriot books, I highly recommend the museum in Yorkshire (Thirsk, IIRC) devoted to his life and his books. It is surrounded by beautiful countryside as well. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/23 "2003-12-07T23:27:59Z")
Um, I had mentioned Scotland, as did **Violet** , **Eve** and [everton.\*\*. 🙂 One thing about Rick Steves: his guidebooks and diagrams can indeed be helpful, but the UK one I read basically did not recommend going north of Inverness in Scotland, which I thought was crazy. Maybe it’s changed now. ---
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/24 "2003-12-08T18:53:15Z")
My brother and I had a fantastic 2 weeks in England/Scotland/Wales. He had friends who lived just outside of London, which gave us a good base to see all the sites in the city via tube and bus. Then, we had a 7-day BritRail pass (buy it before you go), and rambled around, utilizing the Tourist Information Centres (TIC’s) for lodgings. Public transport worked out just fine for us. I would highly recommend Kew Gardens: [http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/](http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/) ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/25 "2003-12-08T19:19:26Z")
I would carry my photo film in a jacket pocket when I go through the airports, or maybe put it in your check-in luggage. I had my film in my carry-on and it got x-rayed so many times in Dublin it pretty much ruined my pictures. ---
**Author:** ![ChordedZither](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9c0ed/32.png) [@ChordedZither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChordedZither)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/26 "2003-12-08T20:57:16Z")
My wife and I gat a RailPass to tour Scotland. We ere hopping from place to place every day or two. Then we took the ferry over to the Isle of Skye - and stayed there for the rest of our vacation. Absolutely gorgeous! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/27 "2003-12-08T21:26:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\ ***Eve’s** advice is all good, but I hope she’ll excuse me for finding “north of London” a hilarious description of the [Lake District](http://www.cumbria-the-lake-district.co.uk/). \*\* _Isn’t_ the Lake District north of London? Mayhaps I have my geography confused . . . ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/28 "2003-12-08T22:13:30Z")
Yes you are correct the Lake District is (275 miles ) north of London but the way it was phrased seemed to suggest that it was just round the next corner not almost the other end of the country ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/29 "2003-12-08T22:57:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rayne Man \* > \*\*Yes you are correct the Lake District is (275 miles ) north of London but the way it was phrased seemed to suggest that it was just round the next corner not almost the other end of the country \*\* Well, let me be the first to say it. To an American 275 miles is hardly more than a trip to the grocery shop. V ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/30 "2003-12-08T23:42:34Z")
Yes, sorry **Eve** – this is a small country compared to yours, but it seemed a little like describing the Grand Canyon as “west of Washington”. There hasn’t been much response to the OP’s question about pastimes so far, but there will be plenty of sporting activity during May and June. For instance, the FA Cup Final is one of the biggest football (soccer) games of the year, and that will be played in Cardiff on 22 May; England will play New Zealand at cricket in London 20-24 May, Leeds 3-7 June, Nottingham 10-14 June and a series of games in late June; the Wimbledon Tennis Championship is due between 21 June and 4 July. Tickets are not easy to get, but the earlier you plan the better. Perhaps you could drop some hints about what you might be interested in **born too late** , and we could search a little further? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/31 "2003-12-09T00:16:51Z")
Oh. All I meant was, if you rent a car, head _north_ from London, not south, east or west. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/32 "2003-12-09T00:33:25Z")
I know it is touristy, but the area around and between Stonehenge and Avebury is wort a visit - everywhere you look, there are huge ancient earthworks, hillside carved chalk figures and standing stones. ---
**Author:** ![born\_too\_late](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba9def/32.png) [@born\_too\_late](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/born_too_late)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/33 "2003-12-09T04:22:09Z")
Thanks again for all the suggestions! The Yorkshire Dales sound intriguing, as do the Scottish highlands and Wales. I’m primarily interested in breathtaking scenery - I need to escape the ratrace for awhile. Ruins are cool - I’d like to see Stonehenge, even if it is kind of tourist-y. After reading the ‘I may be going to Ireland’ thread, I will definitely want to stop there for a while. Liverpool and Manchester sound like they might be good to visit, too. Especially since they were the center of development for some bands and sounds I like. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/34 "2003-12-09T06:37:38Z")
I really wouldn’t even bother with Stonehenge. The stones are a lot smaller than you think and you can’t really get near them. It’s ok if you’re stopping there on your way to somewhere else, but don’t make a special trip for it. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/35 "2003-12-09T09:08:14Z")
If you only have two or three weeks DO NOT TRY TO DO TOO MUCH. Really. Most first time American visitors look at the distances involved and think “275 miles? Hell, it’s like a trip to the shops back home, we’ll back for supper”. There are 60 million of us in a very small country, 50 of those in England, the roads are max. three lanes and the traffic is awful. London to the Lake District for instance will take around 6 hours driving… I would recommend England plus one other country - Wales for convenience, north-west Scotland for splendor and the sea food. May is actually the best time to go to the Highlands, but again be aware that driving up there takes a long time even though there is no traffic. Hire a car if you are heading to North Wales or Scotland north of Glasgow or Edinburgh otherwise buy a rail pass. If not totally confident driving overseas then hire one when you get away from the SE of England where most of the jams are. If you are going to Scotland you have to go north of Fort William to get the best scenary, for north Wales into Snowdonia. If going to the latter check out the Pen-y-Gwerd Hotel ([http://www.pyg.co.uk/](http://www.pyg.co.uk/)), you can walk up Snowdon from the front door, it’s in middle of nowhere and has great food and the Wales most eccentric owner. It was also the training base for the first successful assault on Mt Everest and is full of historical stuff including Edmund Hillary and the rest of the teams signatures on the roof of the bar! You say, “I’m more interested in seeing a variety of climates and landscapes, and some indigenous architecture, cuisine, and pastimes, but I would rather avoid obvious tourist attractions.” I would suggest: Spend no more than a long weekend on arrival in London - river trip down to Greenwich or up to Hampton Court, shopping/eating in Soho, or Camden or Notting Hill, one museum (do not know what you are interested in but thinking culture go to the Victoria and Albert (known as the V&A)) and one “different” - maybe the meat market in Smithfields if you are an early riser, or the Lloyds Building in Lime St in the City on a workday to hit the architecture button. Oh and you MUST go to explore the hidden the Inns of Court - it’s where all the lawyers work from opposite the Old Bailey Law Courts and a secret world of alleyways, courtyards and fountains. Get out of town - try and pick countryside with good cities nearby, Leeds (just voted best city in Britain to live in) and York are both safe bets; with Yorkshire Dales (really nice) and Yorkshire Moors (really wild) nearby. If you go to Leeds you can eat some fantastic curry there - forget fish and chips as the national dish. It’s curry. Lake District is very pretty but touristy - but in May/June you are prior to the school holidays so will not be so bad. Pastimes - hmm. You really should go to a football (soccer) game but the seasons finishes in May, and it is only fun if you know some locals to go with. If that works go to a Second Division game - it’s cheaper and just as fun and you should be able to get a ticket. Pubs - well you will have no problem there. You can take your pick of the country ones - but you should also check out one or two historic city pubs too. You can find the oldest (Ye Olde Trippe to Jerusalem in Nottingham - around 1180?), most haunted (The Wicked Lady in Nomansland Common Hertfordshire?) or famous writers, lawyers pubs in London (Ye Olde Cheddar Cheese near Fleet Street, the Lamb and Flag in Covent Garden or the Wig and Pen back near the Law Courts). I could go on for ever… Buying a copy of the Good Pub Guide or researching the CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) website will serve you well if you are car touring - if you never eat in roadside service stations off main roads, but eat in pubs in nearby villages the guide will pay for itself immediately. Oh and you need to visit the seaside somewhere. You could do a day return to Brighton from London - it’s the gay capital of Britain as well as a nice place for the day with good train service. I could go on and on but enough for now. People never do, but I would be interested if you reported back what you did do and what were the highlights in MPSIMS or somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466/36 "2003-12-09T17:01:48Z")
Let me get it off my chest now: there ain’t no freakin’ monster in Loch Ness. I went there 4 years ago with subconscious hopes of the lake bubbling over and a giant, long-necked head ripping out…no dice. Anyway, you can get some cool, cheap tours of Loch Ness if you make your way to Inverness (a nice little town in itself). Just hang outside the tourist office and you’ll see Nessie buses that charge a small fee to take you around the entire Loch in the course of a day, along with many nice little stops. And the Loch Ness Monster museum is kinda cool, even if the whole thing is devoted to debunking its existence. (There’s actually two museums; I forget which one I was in.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/planning-a-trip-to-england-ireland-scotland-first-time-overseas/217466.md?page=1)