# Plans for English invasion of Ireland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 25, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964 "2002-03-25T05:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/1 "2002-03-25T05:19:40Z")
England has had a long history of colonialization, with Ireland as being the nearest colony. I won’t get into the subjugation and exploitation aspects. Suppose the USA goes into WW3, and Ally#1…Great Britain… was swept up into the conflict. Massive airstrikes against England render the nation a pile of rubble. Ireland, as a neutral country, emerges unscathed. Is there some secret mandate in Parliament to regroup in Ireland so that the resource rich Green Isle would stabilize a shattered nation? (Keep in mind, other than Northern Ireland…still under British control…England recognizes the Irish Free State/ Republic of Ireland as a independent soverign nation). ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/2 "2002-03-25T05:25:04Z")
If someone on this board knew of this secret plan, my guess is it wouldn’t be secret anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/3 "2002-03-25T05:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enola Straight \* > \*\*… Massive airstrikes against England > render the nation a pile of rubble. > > Ireland, as a neutral country, emerges unscathed. > > Is there some secret mandate in Parliament to regroup in Ireland > so that the resource rich Green Isle would stabilize a shattered > nation? > \*\* But Scotland and Wales would still be unscathed too, if the massive airstrikes are for some reason only targetted at England, wouldn’t they? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/4 "2002-03-25T05:46:21Z")
I thought everybody knew about that plan. It’s called “Back to Dublin”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/5 "2002-03-25T06:09:08Z")
If the nation’s a pile of rubble and the British army wiped out by WWIII, how are they going to be able to invade Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/6 "2002-03-25T06:17:50Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** This strikes me as being more Mundane and Pointless than a Great Debate. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/7 "2002-03-25T10:27:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enola Straight \* > **Ireland, as a neutral country, emerges unscathed.** I think this is probably an unlikely scenario but, hey, it’s a “what if . . .” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enola Straight \* > **Is there some secret mandate in Parliament to regroup in Ireland so that the resource rich Green Isle would stabilize a shattered nation?** Nothing in Parliament is secret. But if we ask if there are secret military plans to occupy Ireland in these circumstances . . . Wouldn’t think so, for a number of reasons. First, any regrouping and recovery to be done would be more easily done in an allied country, such as another NATO member state. Secondly, any power that could flatten Great Britain could, and no doubt would, flatten Ireland if British forces were using it. In short, the British would find it easier to go a little further afield in order to regroup without being the subject of guerilla attacks from the local population, plus the same external attacks which led to the problem in the first place. I have heard, on no particular authority, that the Allies did consider invading Ireland during the Second World War in order to take control of certain ports and naval bases and use them for the Atlantic campaign, and that the plan was that US forces rather than British forces would undertake the invasion, because they would meet with less resistance and because the Irish government would find it easier to come to terms with the US government than with the British government. ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/8 "2002-03-25T11:14:06Z")
Only plans to invade Ireland that I know of are when Brit Dopers go to Dublin for a decent pint of Guinness. I suppose if there was a threat of war some of us civilians might flee to Ireland and stand around carrying big signs saying “For the love of God, don’t bomb us. We’re Irish (honest)” Daft OP, daft response. That’s the way it goes. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/9 "2002-03-25T11:20:47Z")
You’re all wrong. I am the vanguard of the new invasion. [sub]It’s all sorted lads, I’ve booked 70,000,000 rooms in Jury’s.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/10 "2002-03-25T14:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tansu \* > **Only plans to invade Ireland that I know of are when Brit Dopers go to Dublin for a decent pint of Guinness.** You isolationist island scum. Dutch Dopers invade Dublin too, dammit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/11 "2002-03-25T19:36:33Z")
😛 I am _rock solid certain_ that if the OP had wanted to know about Dutch plans to invade Ireland, he (she?) would have asked. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/12 "2002-03-26T02:36:27Z")
Barring invasion or nuclear strike, the English goverment would not leave. In the former case, Ireland might be overrun by swarms of refugees, but their military would be too tied up in defense. In the latter case, the the British government would leave, probably to the east, floating in the jetstream, making sunsets brighter for years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/13 "2002-03-26T04:33:39Z")
Hehehe - It could **take** a nuclear strike to make any association between the U.K. government and the concept of “bright”. 🙂 Or maybe that applies to a lot of poiticians anywhere, I suppose. And I _still_ think that some posters seem (erroneously) to think that “England” is synonymous with “Britain”. Oh well, ignorance-fighting continues. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/14 "2002-03-26T04:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Celyn \* > \*\*Hehehe - It could **take** a nuclear strike to make any association between the U.K. government and the concept of “bright”. 🙂 > > Or maybe that applies to a lot of poiticians anywhere, I suppose. > And I _still_ think that some posters seem (erroneously) to think that “England” is synonymous with “Britain”. Oh well, ignorance-fighting continues. 🙂 \*\* Hey, if ya wrote down your Constitution, maybe the rest of us could keep it straight. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/15 "2002-03-26T06:51:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*I have heard, on no particular authority, that the Allies did consider invading Ireland during the Second World War in order to take control of certain ports and naval bases and use them for the Atlantic campaign, and that the plan was that US forces rather than British forces would undertake the invasion, because they would meet with less resistance and because the Irish government would find it easier to come to terms with the US government than with the British government. \*\* I can recall reading this too, though I’m not inclined to dig for a cite at the moment (Coogan or Lyons, probably). It’s kind of hard to imagine that an American invasion would be any more palatable, though, given Dev’s relationship with the American Minister at the time. Celyn: > [@](#): > > And I still think that some posters seem (erroneously) to think that “England” is synonymous with “Britain”. Normally this has me in fits too, but there is a substantial amount of precedent for doing so if you look at the history of British-Irish relations. The war of independence was called the _Anglo_-Irish War, the agreement Thatcher and Fitzgerald signed was the _Anglo_-Irish Agreement, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/16 "2002-03-26T07:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimboguy \* > \*\* > > Hey, if ya wrote down your Constitution, maybe the rest of us could keep it straight. 😛 \*\* LOL - Good one, **yojimboguy** 🙂 And an amazingly weird document it would be too! It would win prizes for fantasy, surrealism, magic realism, and the it-is-such-an-incomprensible-melange that it _must_ be high art! And probably the “Dark & StormyNight” (too lazy to look up proper name just now, but you all know the one I mean) prize for bad writing too. hehehe - now there is a game for long winter evenings, or for unemployed scum like myself. Hmm - a nice big project! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/17 "2002-03-26T10:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\* > > It’s kind of hard to imagine that an American invasion would be any more palatable, though, given Dev’s relationship with the American Minister at the time. > > \*\* Well, it wouldn’t have been much more palatable. Dev would have hated having to yield to any invader. But there would be obvious additional problems in yielding to an invading British force, a bare twenty or twenty-five years after the war of independence. Moreover there would be a perception in Ireland that, over time, the British _could_ be defeated through a combination of guerilla tactics and political action - after all, this had worked before - whereas the Americans, as well as not being a historical enemy, were seen as completely invincible. I think by the 1940s Dev was enough of a realist to know that conventional resistance to either the British or the Americans was impossible to sustain for more than a very short period. However had there been a British invasion I don’t think he could have prevented a continuing guerilla campaign against it. But he _might_ have been enough of a pragmatist to try to sell some kind of dictated-at-the-point-of-a-gun “alliance” with the US, and he _might_ have got away with it, or at least minimised the active resistance to it. Happily, the question was never put to the test. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/18 "2002-03-26T11:38:40Z")
Sorry to drag this up again, as there’s already been a lot of stuff about it, but for the OP and other posters who find it confusing, here are the definitions regarding the British Isles (which in itself is a controversial term). Helps if you draw Venn diagrams: **Geographical**   Great Britain (big island on the right):       England       Scotland       Wales   Ireland (smaller island on the left):       Northern Ireland       Republic of Ireland **Political**   United Kingdom (sometimes referred to simply as ‘Britain’):       England (country)       Scotland (country)       Wales (principality)       Northern Ireland (province, 6 counties of Ireland)   Republic of Ireland (not called Éire by its inhabitants):       26 counties of Ireland ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/19 "2002-03-26T11:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Sorry to drag this up again, as there’s already been a lot of stuff about it, but for the OP and other posters who find it confusing, here are the definitions regarding the British Isles (which in itself is a controversial term). Helps if you draw Venn diagrams: > > **Geographical** >   Great Britain (big island on the right): >       England >       Scotland >       Wales >   Ireland (smaller island on the left): >       Northern Ireland >       Republic of Ireland > > **Political** >   United Kingdom (sometimes referred to simply as ‘Britain’): >       England (country) >       Scotland (country) >       Wales (principality) >       Northern Ireland (province, 6 counties of Ireland) >   Republic of Ireland (not called Éire by its inhabitants): >       26 counties of Ireland \*\* Hijack:/ So what do you call the rest of the affiliates – Canada, Australia, etc? Anything besides the British Empire? And what exactly is the “Dominion”? Is India still in on the Empire? Or did they blow that popsicle stand 100%? Also, since America is now the driving force behind development of the English language, we are not mistaking England for Britain, we are redefining the terms. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/20 "2002-03-26T12:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Republic of Ireland (not called Éire by its inhabitants): In english, anyway 🙂 Bonus points though for using the fadá over the E. And learn how to do your smileys correctly, ya limey 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964.md?page=2)