# Plans for English invasion of Ireland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 25, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964 "2002-03-25T05:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/21 "2002-03-26T12:17:10Z")
Couple of corrections/quarrels/nitpicks as regards jjimm’s analysis. Geographically, we have Great Britain, an island, and Ireland, an island Policitally, we have a rather more complex situation. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, often referred to as Britain, is a multinational state which consists of (a) Great Britain, which in turn comprises England, Scotland and Wales (each of which is a country, with Wales occasionally being called a principality as well), and (b) Northern Ireland, which is variously called a “country”, a “province”, a “state” or something else, depending on your political views. It has no official legal description other than its name. And we also have Ireland, a separate state which has the same name as the island of Ireland, but which covers only part of the island. The _description_ of the state, adopted in 1948, is “the Republic of Ireland”, but the _name_, adopted in 1937, is “Ireland”. The description is used where confusion with the geographic island of Ireland might otherwise cause confusion. Yojimboguy asks about “affiliates”, by whih I take it he means countries which are affiliated in some way to the UK. The British Empire ceased to exist in 1947, when India achieved self-government, and George VI ceased to be emperor. What there is now is the Commonwealth of Nations, an association of independent states, of which the UK is one. The Queen of the UK is the head of the Commonwealth, although she is not the head of state of most of its member states. Most of the states which are members of the Commonwealth were at one time colonies or protectorates of the UK, but not all. Most of the former colonies or protectorates of the UK are in the Commonwealth, but not all. Ireland is not a member of the Commonwealth. India is a member of the Commonwealth. “Dominion” is the official description of the state in Canada and New Zealand and, by extension, came to be used as a label for those former British colonies which achieved self-governing status, but retained the British monarch as head of state. In that context its not a term which has much political signficance nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/22 "2002-03-26T12:36:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by UDS_ > **the name, adopted in 1937, is “Ireland”.** Ah fer fucks’s sake, just when I thought it was all cleared up. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*And learn how to do your smileys correctly, ya limey 😉 \*\* I didn’t do any smileys. Whatchoo you talking 'bout, Willis? Or do you mean I should have? Anyway, re. your point, my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me, Jackeen. 😉🙂 😛 😃 :o :eek: ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/23 "2002-03-26T12:46:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, re. your point, my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me, Jackeen. I never said you should, just that you get bonus points for using a fadá over the E 😉 I can explain this much better when I’m very drunk. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/24 "2002-03-26T15:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me** She doesn’t? What does she call it? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/25 "2002-03-26T15:32:46Z")
It depends how you are refering to it. Article 4 of the constitution reads as follows: Éire is ainm don Stát nó, sa Sacs-Bhéarla, Ireland. In English: The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/26 "2002-03-26T16:17:58Z")
It’s very clear to me. If you’re speaking or writing in English, the name of the state is “Ireland”. If you’re speaking or writing in Irish, the name of the state is “Éire”. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/27 "2002-03-26T17:25:10Z")
Not that these drunken Micks give a shit either way. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/28 "2002-03-26T17:31:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want 😉 How about [a pathetic sectarian state](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_1866000/1866380.stm) :rolleyes: I remember seeing a documentary of Ch. 4 (possibly: The real DeValera ???) where the issue of WWII and Ireland V’s Britain was brought up. It was said that Churchill thought about invading Ireland to regain the Treaty Ports but Monty advised against it (he had served in Ireland) due to the fact that it would take too much men and equipment to fight the guerrilla war that would of almost definitely followed. The above may be total BS however. [Here’s](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/brbrom.htm) a site that goes against it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/29 "2002-03-26T17:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want 😉 How about [a pathetic sectarian state](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_1866000/1866380.stm) :rolleyes: I remember seeing a documentary of Ch. 4 (possibly: The real DeValera ???) where the issue of WWII and Ireland V’s Britain was brought up. It was said that Churchill thought about invading Ireland to regain the Treaty Ports but Monty advised against it (he had served in Ireland) due to the fact that it would take too much men and equipment to fight the guerrilla war that would of almost definitely followed. The above may be total BS however. [Here’s](http://www.winstonchurchill.org/brbrom.htm) a site that goes against it 🙂 > [@](#): > > A darker side of the ports question was the possibility of their use by the German Navy. Though Ireland had proclaimed neutrality, there was a real risk of the ports falling into German hands, either as the result of invasion or by action by the IRA. Aware of the danger, Churchill worked hard to gain some concession from the Irish leader Eamon De Valera, but was only partially successful. His approaches on the same topic to Franklin Roosevelt similarly met with limited success. It would of course have been quite possible for Britain to have seized the ports, but when this was suggested Churchill refused even to consider such a course, saying that this was just the sort of thing he was fighting against. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/30 "2002-03-26T17:37:21Z")
Crap. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/31 "2002-03-26T18:22:13Z")
Funnily enough, if I recall correctly, in a broadcast just after VE day Churchill said precisely the opposite. He said that he _had_ considered seizing the Irish ports in question, and that he felt he would have been justified in doing so. It was de Valera, in a replying broadcast, who pointed out that this was precisely the kind of thing he was supposed to be fighting against. Churchill is said to have conceded privately afterwards that de Valera was right. Incidentally, given the capacity of the IRA in the 1940s, there was no prospect whatsoever that IRA action could have made the ports available to Germany in defiance of the wishes of the Irish government. A German invasion could, of course, have had that effect. But I think the issue for Britain was not whether Germany might make use of the ports, but whether Britain itself needed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/32 "2002-03-26T18:42:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **I never said you should, just that you get bonus points for using a fadá over the E 😉** And you **lose** points for putting an extraneous fada in fad_a_🙂 As for Trimble’s comments, a letter to the Irish News last Saturday week said it best: “Trimble should know something about pathetic sectarian states, his party ran one for fifty years.” ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/33 "2002-03-26T18:58:52Z")
WOW - isn’t this all terribly intellectual for MPSIMS? Tee hee. Fun! But I **do** feel it important to point out that I think Churchill would happily have seized **any** port, brandy, whisky (or even whiskey) or whatever came to hand. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/34 "2002-03-27T10:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Not that these drunken Micks give a shit either way. 🙂 \*\* Quite the opposite actually. Most of us **only** give a shit about it when we’re drunk. Same with God, the state of the Church, how we’re going to win the world cup, the breasts on the bar maid, world hunger, fiscal policy, breasts in general, the poetry of W.B.Yeats, whether Buffy really should be shagging a vampire… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/35 "2002-03-27T10:20:41Z")
Well, at least you guys still have a _shot_ at winning the world cup. We’re playing Spain in a friendly tonight. Yesterday’s press conference drew exactly two journalists. Mr. Advokaat was not pleased. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/36 "2002-03-27T10:46:33Z")
were either of them from Glasgow? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964/37 "2002-03-27T10:50:18Z")
I dunno, the burly looking lad in the kilt may have been. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plans-for-english-invasion-of-ireland/99964.md?page=1)