Plans for English invasion of Ireland?

[UDS]

Couple of corrections/quarrels/nitpicks as regards jjimm’s analysis.

Geographically, we have

Great Britain, an island, and

Ireland, an island

Policitally, we have a rather more complex situation.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, often referred to as Britain, is a multinational state which consists of

(a) Great Britain, which in turn comprises England, Scotland and Wales (each of which is a country, with Wales occasionally being called a principality as well), and

(b) Northern Ireland, which is variously called a “country”, a “province”, a “state” or something else, depending on your political views. It has no official legal description other than its name.

And we also have Ireland, a separate state which has the same name as the island of Ireland, but which covers only part of the island. The description of the state, adopted in 1948, is “the Republic of Ireland”, but the name, adopted in 1937, is “Ireland”. The description is used where confusion with the geographic island of Ireland might otherwise cause confusion.

Yojimboguy asks about “affiliates”, by whih I take it he means countries which are affiliated in some way to the UK.

The British Empire ceased to exist in 1947, when India achieved self-government, and George VI ceased to be emperor. What there is now is the Commonwealth of Nations, an association of independent states, of which the UK is one. The Queen of the UK is the head of the Commonwealth, although she is not the head of state of most of its member states. Most of the states which are members of the Commonwealth were at one time colonies or protectorates of the UK, but not all. Most of the former colonies or protectorates of the UK are in the Commonwealth, but not all. Ireland is not a member of the Commonwealth.

India is a member of the Commonwealth.

“Dominion” is the official description of the state in Canada and New Zealand and, by extension, came to be used as a label for those former British colonies which achieved self-governing status, but retained the British monarch as head of state. In that context its not a term which has much political signficance nowadays.

[jjimm]

Originally posted by UDS
the name, adopted in 1937, is “Ireland”.

Ah fer fucks’s sake, just when I thought it was all cleared up.

*Originally posted by TwistofFate *
**And learn how to do your smileys correctly, ya limey **

I didn’t do any smileys. Whatchoo you talking 'bout, Willis? Or do you mean I should have?

Anyway, re. your point, my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me, Jackeen. :o :eek:

[TwistofFate]

Anyway, re. your point, my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me, Jackeen.

I never said you should, just that you get bonus points for using a fadá over the E

I can explain this much better when I’m very drunk.

[UDS]

*Originally posted by jjimm *
my Gaelgor fiancée doesn’t call it Éire in Irish, and that’s good enough for me

She doesn’t? What does she call it?

[TwistofFate]

It depends how you are refering to it.

Article 4 of the constitution reads as follows:

Éire is ainm don Stát nó, sa Sacs-Bhéarla, Ireland.

In English:

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want

[UDS]

It’s very clear to me. If you’re speaking or writing in English, the name of the state is “Ireland”. If you’re speaking or writing in Irish, the name of the state is “Éire”.

[Coldfire]

Not that these drunken Micks give a shit either way.

[yojimbo]

*Originally posted by TwistofFate *
I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want

How about a pathetic sectarian state :rolleyes:

I remember seeing a documentary of Ch. 4 (possibly: The real DeValera ???) where the issue of WWII and Ireland V’s Britain was brought up. It was said that Churchill thought about invading Ireland to regain the Treaty Ports but Monty advised against it (he had served in Ireland) due to the fact that it would take too much men and equipment to fight the guerrilla war that would of almost definitely followed.

The above may be total BS however.

Here’s a site that goes against it

[yojimbo]

*Originally posted by TwistofFate *
I have given up on this whole debate. call us what you want

How about a pathetic sectarian state :rolleyes:

I remember seeing a documentary of Ch. 4 (possibly: The real DeValera ???) where the issue of WWII and Ireland V’s Britain was brought up. It was said that Churchill thought about invading Ireland to regain the Treaty Ports but Monty advised against it (he had served in Ireland) due to the fact that it would take too much men and equipment to fight the guerrilla war that would of almost definitely followed.

The above may be total BS however.

Here’s a site that goes against it

A darker side of the ports question was the possibility of their use by the German Navy. Though Ireland had proclaimed neutrality, there was a real risk of the ports falling into German hands, either as the result of invasion or by action by the IRA. Aware of the danger, Churchill worked hard to gain some concession from the Irish leader Eamon De Valera, but was only partially successful. His approaches on the same topic to Franklin Roosevelt similarly met with limited success. It would of course have been quite possible for Britain to have seized the ports, but when this was suggested Churchill refused even to consider such a course, saying that this was just the sort of thing he was fighting against.

[yojimbo]

Crap. Sorry about that.

[UDS]

Funnily enough, if I recall correctly, in a broadcast just after VE day Churchill said precisely the opposite. He said that he had considered seizing the Irish ports in question, and that he felt he would have been justified in doing so. It was de Valera, in a replying broadcast, who pointed out that this was precisely the kind of thing he was supposed to be fighting against. Churchill is said to have conceded privately afterwards that de Valera was right.

Incidentally, given the capacity of the IRA in the 1940s, there was no prospect whatsoever that IRA action could have made the ports available to Germany in defiance of the wishes of the Irish government. A German invasion could, of course, have had that effect. But I think the issue for Britain was not whether Germany might make use of the ports, but whether Britain itself needed to do so.

[ruadh]

*Originally posted by TwistofFate *
I never said you should, just that you get bonus points for using a fadá over the E

And you lose points for putting an extraneous fada in fada

As for Trimble’s comments, a letter to the Irish News last Saturday week said it best: “Trimble should know something about pathetic sectarian states, his party ran one for fifty years.”

[Celyn]

WOW - isn’t this all terribly intellectual for MPSIMS? Tee hee. Fun!

But I do feel it important to point out that I think Churchill would happily have seized any port, brandy, whisky (or even whiskey) or whatever came to hand.

[yojimbo]

*Originally posted by Coldfire *
**Not that these drunken Micks give a shit either way. **

Quite the opposite actually. Most of us only give a shit about it when we’re drunk. Same with God, the state of the Church, how we’re going to win the world cup, the breasts on the bar maid, world hunger, fiscal policy, breasts in general, the poetry of W.B.Yeats, whether Buffy really should be shagging a vampire…

[Coldfire]

Well, at least you guys still have a shot at winning the world cup. We’re playing Spain in a friendly tonight. Yesterday’s press conference drew exactly two journalists. Mr. Advokaat was not pleased.

[TwistofFate]

were either of them from Glasgow?

[Coldfire]

I dunno, the burly looking lad in the kilt may have been.