# Playboy! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442 "2016-02-18T14:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/41 "2016-02-19T18:18:09Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I didn’t look at all the photos but I looked at enough to say it seems like there was a very specific template of proper dimensions of nipples to the photographer because though they may differ in looks it seems like all these women have the exact same size nipples! Except for Kathy Shower, who burst the nipple barrier big time! NSFW: [Evidence.](http://www.janewithnolastname.com/Nipples/shower.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/42 "2016-02-19T18:28:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Except for Kathy Shower, who burst the nipple barrier big time! > > NSFW: > > [Evidence.](http://www.janewithnolastname.com/Nipples/shower.html) Don’t forget Candy Loving, their improbably-named 25th anniversary Playmate. I think her aureolae were bigger than some complete breasts. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/43 "2016-02-21T01:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Here are all the centerfolds (those that were 15-16-17 not included). Wait… what? They used to have underage centerfolds? I knew Hef was a sleeze, but I didn’t know he was THAT sleezy. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > The 7-11 chain pretty famously banned Playboy from its stores in the mid-1980s, hidden or not. > > Playboy responded with a picture feature “The Women of 7-11” in the Dec. 1986 issue. > > [http://theplayboyguy.ecrater.com/p/6654984/playboy-magazine-december-1986-brooke-shields](http://theplayboyguy.ecrater.com/p/6654984/playboy-magazine-december-1986-brooke-shields) > > I suppose it’s possible that it crept back into some stores. I know that I haven’ > t seen it on sale at a 7-11 since. > > But plenty of non 7-11 convenience stores have always carried it, I’ve seen not only Playboy, but also several much raunchier nudie magazines at 7-11, all I remember happening was them moving them behind the counter, and later putting a blocking thing over the cover in the behind the counter rack, so you could only see the title. If there ever was an actual chainwide ban, it was certainly lifted fairly quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/44 "2016-02-21T01:15:37Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Wait… what? They used to have underage centerfolds? I knew Hef was a sleeze, but I didn’t know he was THAT sleezy. Reviewing it, that link of centerfolds has one of the youngest underage girls on it. I won’t point her out but to relate that her mother had to bring her to the shoot and sign a permission slip. Ick. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/45 "2016-02-21T01:16:35Z")
The law was not as clear in the 1950s. There was one [16-year-old Playmate](http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/14999/Elizabeth_Ann_Roberts_16-year-old_Playboy_Playmate_/#.VskQOsrXGHo)(her mother signed the paperwork) and several who were either 17 when the issue appeared or when the pictures were taken. > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Ann Roberts, Playboy magazine’s Playmate of the Month for January 1958, looked like a high school student–because she was! Born in August 1941, the pretty 16-year-old showed up for her photo shoot with a note signed by her mother (who actually accompanied Elizabeth!). Mom’s note gave the okay for her daughter to pose for Playboy and also attested that Elizabeth was not a minor. Roberts appeared in a pictorial salaciously titled “Schoolmate Playmate.” Her elegant but very youthful appearance prompted an investigation. Charges were laid in Chicago against both Playboy impresario Hugh Hefner and Elizabeth’s mother for “contributing to the delinquency of a minor.” The charge against Hefner was later dropped when it could not be proved that Hefner knew Roberts’ real age. Had the case proceeded to court, Hefner was prepared to argue that the girl who posed nude for the famous 1912 painting September Morn was only 15. Roberts later worked as a bunny in Chicago’s Playboy Club. There have been at least seven Playboy Playmates of the Month who were under 18 years of age. Almost all appeared before 1967 when previously vague laws pertaining to modelling for art, erotica, and pornography were clarified and tightened. One exception was the spectacularly well endowed Cynthia Myers (Playmate from December 1968): She was only 17 when she posed, but she had turned 18 by the time her photos were published. It took until 1984 for Playboy to officially institute a minimum age of 18 for its models. They are all included in that Playmates link, including Roberts. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/46 "2016-02-21T01:29:48Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Wait… what? They used to have underage centerfolds? I knew Hef was a sleeze, but I didn’t know he was THAT sleezy. I’ve never heard of a 15-year-old Playmate, but I don’t think 16 or 17 was considered underage at the time the photos were taken. IIRC, there was one instance where a 17-year-old Playmate\* led to a court case, but it was eventually dismissed. \*Elizabeth Ann Roberts, Miss January 1958. Her photo is freely available. **EDIT:** Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/47 "2016-02-21T01:33:34Z")
Helena Antonaccio (Jun '69) has always been my favourite. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/48 "2016-02-21T04:31:39Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Wait… what? They used to have underage centerfolds? I knew Hef was a sleeze, but I didn’t know he was THAT sleezy. The case law apparently wasn’t clear. The age of consent varies from state to state; in many states it’s sixteen not eighteen. So is a nationally distributed publication required to adhere to the most restrictive law in the country? And there’s another big issue; this was nude photography not sex. And in Playboy’s early years (like 1958 when Elizabeth Ann Roberts posed) it barely qualified as nudity. I certainly don’t want to look like I’m advocating for child pornography. But there is an element of hysteria that’s developed around the subject. A topless photo of a seventeen year old professional model shouldn’t be seen as the equivalent of raping a five year old. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/49 "2016-02-21T04:41:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Almost all appeared before 1967 when previously vague laws pertaining to modelling for art, erotica, and pornography were clarified and tightened. One exception was the spectacularly well endowed Cynthia Myers (Playmate from December 1968): She was only 17 when she posed, but she had turned 18 by the time her photos were published. I believe there was another, more recent, exception. Ursula Buchfellner, who is German, originally appeared in the German edition of Playboy in 1977. She subsequently appeared in the American edition in 1979. She was eighteen when she modeled for the American edition but she had modeled for the German pictures when she was sixteen and seventeen. However all of the photos from different international editions are available to Playboy and I’ve read that some of her German pictures were inadvertently published in America. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/50 "2016-02-21T04:55:58Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Reviewing it, that link of centerfolds has one of the youngest underage girls on it. I won’t point her out but to relate that her mother had to bring her to the shoot and sign a permission slip. > > Ick. Serious question–do you have that kind of reaction to teenage girls in bikinis? Because they show very nearly as much skin as that picture does. By the way, most states allow 16-year-olds to get married with parental consent. Most states allow that age or younger to drive a car. Children MUCH younger than that can use guns under adult supervision. It seems to me that you’re over-reacting rather badly. > [@terentii](#): > > I’ve never heard of a 15-year-old Playmate, but I don’t think 16 or 17 was considered underage at the time the photos were taken. > > IIRC, there was one instance where a 17-year-old Playmate\* led to a court case, but it was eventually dismissed. Talking about court cases – I was thinking about Sally Mann recently. For those who don’t know her, she’s a photographer whose exhibition once included pictures of her own children – a few of them naked. She never got into trouble, but it wasn’t for lack of trying in certain quarters. More info here. [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/the-disturbing-photography-of-sally-mann.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/the-disturbing-photography-of-sally-mann.html?_r=0) In thinking about that and other controversies, I’ve come to the conclusion that the average DA has a significantly dirtier and more perverted mind than the average pedophile. That seems to be the only explanation for why so many people are taken to court for pictures that manifestly do not meet the legal description of child porn. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/51 "2016-02-21T06:14:19Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It seems to me that you’re over-reacting rather badly. Maybe he prefers the “Over 40” category. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442/52 "2016-02-21T15:28:58Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Talking about court cases – > I was thinking about Sally Mann recently. For those who don’t know her, she’s a photographer whose exhibition once included pictures of her own children – a few of them naked. She never got into trouble, but it wasn’t for lack of trying in certain quarters. … > > In thinking about that and other controversies, I’ve come to the conclusion that the average DA has a significantly dirtier and more perverted mind than the average pedophile. That seems to be the only explanation for why so many people are taken to court for pictures that manifestly do not meet the legal description of child porn. [David Hamilton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hamilton_%28photographer%29) is a better comparison for this thread. His photography is of post-pubescent girls too young for Playboy. Even though he works in France, his work has driven prosecutors crazy in the same way. > [@](#): > > As much of Hamilton’s work depicts early-teen girls, often nude, he has been the subject of some controversy and even child pornography allegations, similar to that which the work of Sally Mann and Jock Sturges have attracted. Several of Hamilton’s books were banned in South Africa for moral reasons.[3] In the late 1990s, conservative Christian groups in America protested unsuccessfully against bookstores that stocked Hamilton’s photography books. > > As The Guardian wrote, “Hamilton’s photographs have long been at the forefront of the ‘is it art or pornography?’ debate.”[4] > > In 2005, a man was convicted for being in possession of 19,000 images of children, including photos by Hamilton. The images were found to be in the lowest indecency rating. In response, Glenn Holland, Hamilton’s spokesman, stated: “We are deeply saddened and disappointed by this, as David is one of the most successful art photographers the world has ever known. His books have sold millions”.[4] Following the conviction, a member of the Surrey Police in Britain stated that possessing Hamilton books was now illegal in the UK. Surrey Police later made a formal apology for this statement and admitted that no legally binding decision had been made on the work of David Hamilton.[5] > > In 2010, a man was convicted of level 1 child pornography for owning four books, including Hamilton’s The Age of Innocence as well as Still Time by Sally Mann, which he purchased from a bookstore in Walthamstow, London. His conviction was overturned on appeal in 2011, with the judge calling his conviction “very unfair” and criticising the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) for prosecuting him. The judge concluded that "If the [CPS] wishes to test whether the pictures in the books are indecent, the right way to deal with the matter is by way of prosecuting the publisher or retailer – not the individual purchaser [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playboy/746442.md?page=2)