# Playing cards - Do Kings represent great kings from history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 1, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485 "2001-08-01T15:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485/1 "2001-08-01T15:30:12Z")
I’m trying to verify a factoid that someone sent to me regarding playing cards. According to an e-mail sent by a co-worker… "Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king from history: Spades - King David; Clubs - Alexander the Great; Hearts - Charlemagne; Diamonds - Julius Caesar." Is there any factual support for this? It sounds like an urban legend to me, but I want to be sure. TIA. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485/2 "2001-08-01T15:53:30Z")
We’ve been here before: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42020](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42020) Snopes says “no”. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485/3 "2001-08-01T15:54:27Z")
Sorta. > [@](#): > > The French had the greatest influence on the creation of the modern deck. They eliminated the major arcana and combined the knight and page, reducing the size of the deck to 52 cards and simplifying the suit symbols to plain red hearts and diamonds, black spades and trefoils (clover leaves). This simplification allowed the deck to be more easily printed and lowered its cost. The French also began to identify the court cards. The king of hearts was Charlemagne, for example; of diamonds, Julius Caesar; of spades, King David; and of clubs, Alexander the Great. From [here](http://www.themysticeye.com/info/playingcard.htm). They’ve got a detailed history of playing cards. It’s verified on other sites as well; just google for “playing card david charlemagne” or something to that extent. It seems that those wacky cheese-eating surrender monkeys were a little creative. HOWEVER. Our good friend Snopes has an [article](http://www.snopes2.com/spoons/fracture/cardking.htm) on this in which they say that this is false, but: > [@](#): > > In summary, the court cards in decks of playing cards were not initially identified by name. The assignation of identities to the kings (as well as the queens and knaves) was a temporary practice unique to French card masters that began around the mid-15th century, was not standardized for some time, and was discontinued at the end of the 18th century. The royal figures on modern playing cards no more represent specific persons than do the kings and queens in chess sets. In summary, the French thought it’d be nice to name the cards, but the rest of the world didn’t care, and the practice died out. (Also, on preview, I find that **yabob** beat me to the punch. This is the last time I research a question before answering it…) ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485/4 "2001-08-01T15:54:55Z")
According to [the schollars](http://www.woodenhorsebooks.com/Playing-Card-Names.html), they represent nobody in particular. ---
**Author:** ![RickQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@RickQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickQ)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/playing-cards-do-kings-represent-great-kings-from-history/74485/5 "2001-08-01T21:45:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LNO \* > \*\* > > It seems that those wacky cheese-eating surrender monkeys were a little creative. > > \*\* [hijack] I’m sorry, I have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, I just think this line is hilarious. 😃 ROTFLMAO [/hijack]