# Please Bush. Get the hell out of Iraq ! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257 "2004-03-30T06:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/81 "2004-04-01T02:49:30Z")
Thank your for backing up your statements, although next time don’t make me recite stupid formulas in order to get you to cough up a cite. I’m opposed to this war, but I’m unsure if the responsible thing to do is to leave immediately and let the country fall into anarchy that will inevitably require humanitarian aid or stay in the face of rising unrest and rebuild the joint. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/82 "2004-04-01T03:15:07Z")
I am glad you finally offered a cite, if you had been clear that what you were refering to was deaths during the war, I wouldn’t even have questioned it. You sounded, however, like you were claiming there had been “thousands of innocent Iraqis” killed during the occupation by US forces, and that simply isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/83 "2004-04-01T13:10:31Z")
Regarding the latest killings of American “civilians” I do not quite accept the reasoning of those who say civilians brought in under the authority of the American occupation forces should be immune from attack. Those who go to Iraq know it is a war zone and know they are going under authority and protection of the occupying forces and they are, in fact, furthering the aims of the occupation forces. They have no permission or assurances from any Iraqi authority. It is war and cooperating with the enemy can get you killed whether you are Iraqi or foreigner. American forces would have no qualms killing those civilians of any nationality who cooperate with their enemy. Also, it has been determined that the “civilians” killed in Iraq were actually highly trained ex-military who were providing security services. In other words, they were combatants. The kind of combatants the US government says are not entitled to the protection of the Geneva conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/84 "2004-04-01T14:37:55Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Also, it has been determined that the “civilians” killed in Iraq were actually highly trained ex-military who were providing security services. In other words, they were combatants. The kind of combatants the US government says are not entitled to the protection of the Geneva conventions. Just to head off this cite? cite? cite? bullshit: > [@](#): > > [N.C.-based Blackwater known as leader in security business > By ALLISON CONNOLLY AND MELISSA SCOTT SINCLAIR, The Virginian-Pilot > © April 1, 2004](http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=68304&ran=154967) > > The Moyock-based company became the center of international attention Wednesday when four of its civilian contractors were killed by an Iraqi mob . The burned bodies of the men were dragged through the streets, and some of their remains hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River. > > \ > > In less than a decade, Blackwater USA has evolved into one of the biggest providers of security in the world. Founded by two former Navy SEALs in 1996, the company provides a wide variety of training and security services at its sprawling 6,000-acre complex just south of the Virginia-North Carolina border. > > \ > > “The conditions they face are as dangerous or more dangerous than those faced by U.S. soldiers,” Singer said. > > Much of the work sounds like it was plucked right out of a Tom Clancy novel. > > The company recently recruited former commandos from Chile to guard Iraq’s oil wells, training them and paying them up to $4,000 each per month for the work, according to The Guardian of London. > > Other contracts are classified so that even the government doesn’t know what the company is doing for one of its agencies, said Blackwater USA president Gary Jackson. “Civilian contractors” = “mercenaries”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/85 "2004-04-01T14:43:00Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Just to head off this cite? cite? cite? bullshit:“Civilian contractors” = “mercenaries”. You nor your cite say what were the actual jobs they were performing. The fact that they were employees of that company does not mean they were not providing armed security for them as I said. I heard on the radio they were ex-military and were armed and provising security services. Can you say for certain this is false? If they were not doing that, then what _exactly_ were they doing? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/86 "2004-04-01T14:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=10E8C959-8FA8-40F9-A7BED506D4CAE0C6](http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=10E8C959-8FA8-40F9-A7BED506D4CAE0C6) > > The American civilians were identified as employees of a U.S.-based company that provides security for coalition personnel (1) Provides security (2) for coalition personnel. Don’t sound like Mother Theresa to me. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/87 "2004-04-01T14:52:48Z")
You called them “armed combatants”. I called them “mercenaries”. Save your arguments for people that are arguing with you. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/88 "2004-04-01T14:56:17Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > You called them “armed combatants”. I called them “mercenaries”. > > Save your arguments for people that are arguing with you. I wasn’t aware you and I were arguing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/89 "2004-04-01T16:45:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I am not judging the individuals who have committed crimes because that is not the purpose of the thread. The CinC who starts a war knowing these things are inevitable in war should have a darned good reason and in this case there is none. So all this has been your way of saying, “I’m against this war. President Bush has not made his case with sufficient reason for me to support his decision to invade Iraq.” Wow. Earth-shattering revelation there, sailor. Seems an inordinate number of words for rather simple declaration of opinion. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257/90 "2004-04-01T17:30:10Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > So all this has been your way of saying, “I’m against this war. President Bush has not made his case with sufficient reason for me to support his decision to invade Iraq.” > > Wow. Earth-shattering revelation there, sailor. Seems an inordinate number of words for rather simple declaration of opinion. There were a number of issues being discussed and I was responding to several posters. They seemed to understand my posts and they seemed to think my posts were adequate responses to their questions and their points. So, for the rest of us the exchange seems to have been fruitful. Just because you did not understand it does not mean it was empty. Feel free to skip my posts if you find them not interesting. Others here seem to have no trouble understanding my points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-bush-get-the-hell-out-of-iraq/237257.md?page=4)