# Please do not throw yourself under a train.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 14, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157 "2013-01-14T12:02:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [January 17, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/101 "2013-01-17T08:08:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> I think they are exactly the same thing:
A psychopath or sociopath does antisocial stuff all his life. It is a pattern, that is whay psychologists call it behavior. It isn’t called behavior if you only do it once. So labelling someone who commits suicide as a psychopath because he does an anti-social (and incredible sad) thing _once_, is incorrect. You’re using a psychological terms to “call names”.
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> [Done.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679068)
Thanks! Lots of the arguments are familiar from the [“Pill of Drion”](http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/suicide-pill-elderly)-debate in the Netherlands twenty years ago. It was a debate about a hypothetical pill that doctors could give to patients who wanted to euthianize themselves at home. Of course, the pill didn’t exist, it was just for the debate. Still, many people called their GP and asked if they could get a prescription for that “pill of Drion” just to have it in their nightstand so they knew they could take it if they felt they needed to.
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#):
>
> It’s [not always fatal,](http://gothamist.com/2011/01/24/astoria_resident_survives_suicidal.php) so it’s considered a rescue incident until it’s proven that it’s not.
>
> ETA: [Around a third of people who are struck by DC Metro trains survive.](http://inthecapital.com/2012/03/08/a-third-of-wmata-metro-suicides-survive-the-attempt/)
Thank you and **Broomstick** and **willthekittensurvive**? for educating me on this.
Tokyobayer, how much of a fine are we talking about? Will the family of a jumper be sued for all the hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage the jumper has caused?
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [January 17, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/102 "2013-01-17T08:28:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> I’m less bothered by the travel inconvenience than by the effect on train drivers in particular.
I’m sort of bothered by both. My concern is often misunderstood as callous disregard for the life of the poor sod who jumped on the track, but really, it’s not that.
About a week ago, my evening commute home was disrupted by a suicide at Hilsea station, which happens to be the bottleneck through which all train transport off Portsea island must travel - so all of the trains stopped - and as a good many services from the south coast to London originate here, the disruption will have affected many non-local routes.
Eventually, the rail companies organised replacement buses and taxis and I finally got home over 3 hours late (journey should have been 30 minutes - was nearly 4 hours).
“So what? You’re just a cold grumpy hungry commuter! Don’t you realise _someone died_?!” is a common form of response to any kind of complaint when this happens, but consider:
A 3 hour delay for me typically does just mean cancellation of evening plans, a ruined dinner and a non-restful evening, but given that an event like this cascades in such way to affect multiple thousands of people, some of the effects will have been:
[ul]
[li]Carers unable to arrive on time to fulfil their duties to children, the elderly and infirm, etc[/li][li]Emergency service workers unable to get to their shift on time[/li][li]Medical professionals delayed on their way to appointments or surgery schedules[/li][li]etc[/li][/ul]
So yes - _someone died_ - and that’s a bad thing, but ultimately, it was a choice they made. Many other people are consequently put at risk through no choice of their own. I consider the consequential harm a greater potential evil than the self-inflicted death of one person.
As a daily commuter and on a personal level though, I’ve pretty much come to accept that my journey home will be ruined on average once a month by an incident like this.
One thing that did affect me differently on this occasion - I happened to be at the station where the train involved in the incident went next to unload its passengers and driver - the driver was conspicuously in a state of near collapse and all of the passengers were really shocked and dazed (bearing in mind that they’d just spent nearly two hours stuck on a train, knowing that a person had been killed by it)
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [January 17, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/103 "2013-01-17T12:31:24Z")
> [@Sailboat](#):
>
> The _most_ considerate method would be to assassinate a notorious dictator or torturer, I suppose, and go down in a blaze of glory from his bodyguards. I guess nitrogen is okay as a distant second.
Sadly, desperate suicides often lack the budget and expertise to be assassins.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [January 17, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/104 "2013-01-17T12:37:32Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Sadly, desperate suicides often lack the budget and expertise to be assassins.
That reminds me of that joke:
> [@](#):
>
> I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline. They’ve got a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/105 "2013-01-18T04:09:22Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#):
>
> They charge the family of the jumpers in Japan, but it still happens too frequently.
Seriously? That’s fucked up.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/106 "2013-01-18T06:06:05Z")
Unless things have changed in the last 20-odd years, not only does your family not get fined in Australia, they in fact will get considerable _compensation_ if you die under the wheels of a train.
A close friend of mine had a child (we’ll call him Jack) with a fellow (Fred), they split up when Jack was a toddler. (She later had three more kids with her new partner.) When Jack was about 10 yrs old, Fred offed himself under a train.
Jack, as the acknowledged child of Fred, suddenly found himself a rather rich boy. I can’t remember the exact details, but there was a one-off cash compensation which his mum invested for him until he hit 21…he was able to purchase a house outright at that time. He also had all of his educational, health and dental needs until he finished university covered under the compensation plan too. All up it amounted to nearly 300k IIRC.
According to my friend, the rationale behind the scheme was that there was always a chance that suicides might have been terrible accidents instead. Wanting to avoid any chance of being deemed culpable (many of the rail-lines in Melbourne are unprotected and anybody can wander onto the tracks…railway-crossing warning systems often malfunction etc etc) they apparently opt for the ‘shut the family up quick’ option, rather than open themselves to the possibility of a lawsuit.
So if the situation is still the same, I imagine there is a financial benefit to be had committing suicide-by-train that might be absent from death by other means.
But it still doesn’t mean I have to cry for the poor depressed sod who’s been vitamized. His/her choice at the end of the day.
Like **Mangetout** , my rail station is a _hub_. It’s the last station on the electric line, but there’s a diesel train and buses that continue another 50km down the peninsula ferrying commuters home. Given the geography, these trains and buses are few and far between, and often the last service is @ 9pm. After that, you’re screwed.
Tough titties for us? If it happened once in a blue moon, I’d suck it up as a cost of living in a major city with post-industrial issues. But it’s happening now with a regularity that I NEVER know whether my trip is going to be on time or tragically delayed.
Fuck 'em. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/107 "2013-01-18T12:38:15Z")
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> So if the situation is still the same, I imagine there is a financial benefit to be had committing suicide-by-train that might be absent from death by other means.
It’s getting so lucrative that some people are making a living doing it.
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### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/108 "2013-01-18T19:10:59Z")
> [@Maastricht](#):
>
> That reminds me of that joke: I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline. They’ve got a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.
Goddammit, Maas! I just read that at work and nased Diet Coke all over my keyboard.
I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. It’s sick and wrong, but I laughed at it. 😃
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/109 "2013-01-19T00:32:24Z")
That’s one of Omid Djalili’s joke IIRC. He’s a funny, funny man.
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/110 "2013-01-19T11:38:02Z")
> [@Maastricht](#):
>
> Tokyobayer, how much of a fine are we talking about? Will the family of a jumper be sued for all the hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage the jumper has caused?
No less than [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/06/world/kunitachi-city-journal-japanese-trains-try-to-shed-a-gruesome-appeal.html) has reported on this.
> [@](#):
>
> Train companies charge the families of suicide victims for damages caused by the suicides. JR East is just one of several train and subway companies operating in the Tokyo area, but it is widely rumored that JR East became the most popular line for suicides because it charged the bereaved families the least.
and based on what “everyone” says, it is in the several tens of thousands of dollars.
Researching this in Japanese, while “everyone” it as well, I’m not finding any hard news of actual amounts. I’m wondering if the New York Times and I are passing along urban legends.
There is a law which allows the train companies to sue people who interfere with the trains. The question is if they actually do go after the families of people who kill themselves. Researching this is not providing any actual news. Humm.
Maybe it’s possible to sue, but it doesn’t actually happen, but the rail companies want to help discourage people so they don’t stop the rumors?
Uncertain.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/111 "2013-01-19T14:26:34Z")
Yeah, they probably can’t even sue (legally and with regard to the PR backlash) but I can see how they would like the rumor to circulate, in the hope it acts as a deterrent and maybe satisfiest the feelings of revenge of those angry about being delayed.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/112 "2013-01-19T19:05:45Z")
Yeah, that might deter _some_ people.
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### Author:  [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/113 "2013-01-19T22:17:18Z")
> [@cwthree](#):
>
> This. If my own experience is typical - and I have no reason to believe it isn’t - suicide is driven by the need for relief from one’s own demons, not by the desire to fuck up someone else’s life.
With a little planning there’s no reason it can’t be both.
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/114 "2013-01-19T23:10:09Z")
> [@flight](#):
>
> Surprising data suggested that if people are prevented from jumping, they tended not to try to kill themselves again.
And if they are NOT prevented from jumping, they also tend not to try and kill themselves again.
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### Author:  [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)
#### Post date: [January 23, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/115 "2013-01-23T18:21:19Z")
And [here](http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/apparent-subway-train-suicide-at-times-square/?src=recg&gwh=D96529150249B181DD33DAD645AA1C99)’s another. Times Square station. These days, though, you get your grisly remains captured and posted by a dozen people with cell phones.
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### Author:  [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/116 "2013-01-24T14:26:19Z")
Had another one yesterday in Toronto too. Had an interesting hike through the PATH system to Osgoode station in order to get around the closure. Nothing compared to our admin who went back to the office after witnessing the event. I think she just didn’t know what to do so went with routine. She’s not in today though.
I expect there were more coworkers there as we had all just left an event and were on our way back to the office.
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### Author:  [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/117 "2013-02-02T17:57:29Z")
I used to commute from OC to downtown LA on Amtrak. One fine evening, the emergency brakes came on, and the train rolled to a stop. I was friendly with the conductor, and sat next to his station in the bar car, so I was among the first to know. We had hit someone.
They made us wait three damn hours while the coroner came out. They wouldn’t let us off the train, even though we were right next to a road. No buses for us! We were less than a mile from my house, I could have hoofed it so easily.
The paper next day reported that it wasn’t a suicide. Some teens had been drinking in the space between the tracks, and a train coming from the other direction caused them to bail out. They didn’t notice us coming the other way and we nailed the last guy.
Stupid teenagers.
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### Author:  [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/118 "2013-02-02T18:34:31Z")
What we really need are suicide booths like in Futureama.
ok, mainly joking but partially serious…there should be a way for people to ‘opt out’.
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/119 "2013-02-03T21:04:39Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#):
>
> …there should be a way for people to ‘opt out’.
Yeah, I’m already thinking of creative ways to bid you all adieu when my quality of life falls below a certain point. But it’s hard to find a way that won’t inconvenience others, allows the family to have closure …AND is hilarious!
Yeah, that’s my number one priority: Leave 'em laughing..
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### Author:  [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-do-not-throw-yourself-under-a-train/647157/120 "2013-02-04T04:35:21Z")
> [@digs](#):
>
> Yeah, that’s my number one priority: Leave 'em laughing..
Wear a Star Trek tee shirt that says “He’s _dead,_ Jim!” when you whack yourself. A red one.
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