# Please don't call it... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883 "2013-08-22T16:13:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/121 "2013-08-25T19:41:14Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > Whoa, dude!! It makes sense, you say “the” freeway, right? You say “the” highway, right? Makes sense to say The 55, The 5, The 101. I don’t get why it bothers people, I guess some people are just easily annoyed. Everywhere I live, and I move around a lot, I use “the” with freeways … guess it tips folks off where I grew up. Some dudes in NorCal, being rather jealous of the power of SoCal, have decided that “we are better, they are low brow, we are high brow” etc. One tiny difference is the amount and emphasis placed upon “the” before freeway number. Thus, these pseudo- elitists have seized upon this extremely trivial thing to be the Shibboleth between couth North and uncouth South. Not knowing they say it too. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/122 "2013-08-26T13:45:54Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > You don’t pronounce the S in Illinois. Oddly enough, no one makes that mistake with Arkansas. Here’s one: Ours really is Monty-Sell-O. And, yes, I know some people say Barrville for Berryville, but that’s not considered the official pronunciation. That’s just some people being lazy. In fact, in general, we tend to dislike out accent being repeated back to us. In fact, most of us try to speak as close as we can to standard American English. As for our neighbor state to the north, just point. Either way you go, half the people will tell you you are wrong. It seems so odd to us Northern Arkansans that you’d want to celebrate pronouncing that final I as if it were an A, even though you never do that anywhere else in your accent, but whatever. Oh, and we don’t put “the” in front of our highways. The reason is that we see the highway number as a name. You wouldn’t say you are going to “the Main street,” would you? I’m not saying it bothers us, just that we don’t do it and don’t understand why anyone cares. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/123 "2013-08-26T13:58:41Z")
My interpretation: ‘Take the freeway south.’ ‘Which freeway?’ ‘The 405 freeway.’ I interpret the sentence as being ‘Take the freeway.’ ‘405’ or ‘I-405’ is the name, and one could reasonably say ‘Take I-405’ south’, but I think that as it is used in SoCal (and other places), you’re saying to take ‘the freeway’. You wouldn’t say ‘Take freeway to San Diego.’ You’d say ‘Take _the_ freeway to San Diego.’ If you add ‘405’ to the sentence, it becomes an adjective, since it is describing _which_ freeway: ‘Take the freeway called 405.’ =\> ‘Take the 405 freeway.’ In use, the noun (‘freeway’) is dropped and the sentence becomes ‘Take the 405.’ This is similar to a conversation that might be used at a Mexican restaurant: ‘Should I have the red sauce, or the green sauce?’ ‘Have the red.’ Since we know that we’re talking about a sauce (or a freeway), the noun is taken as given. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/124 "2013-08-26T14:00:49Z")
Here are a few from Georgia- Albany = All benny Berlin = BUR lun (I have heard that it was ber LIN sometime before WWI or WWII) Adel = AY dell Eldorado = ell duh RAY doe Dacula = duh CUE luh Taliaferro county = tolliver McDonough = mack donna Locals get irritated when Yankees don’t pronounce the L in DeKalb (county). I will start pronouncing it when the locals quit pronouncing the L in salmon! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/125 "2013-08-26T14:08:14Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Quincy is not pronounced in a way anyone could guess. Actually, neither is Billerica, come to think of it. Leominster or Leicester? They might guess those. > > Quinzee > Billricka > Lehminster > Lester And Worester, MA has been pronounced “Wister” as long as I’ve been alive. There’s no BO-ga-ta New Jersey. It’s ba-GO-ta. Out-of-state newscasters get this wrong every time. And a character on 21 Jump Street once said he grew up in mun-AU-chee, New Jersey. If you grew up in Moonachie (or even bothered to call the borough hall), you’d know it’s pronounced MOON-auk-ee. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/126 "2013-08-26T14:32:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … Once, at a meeting we had even taped, and I played back diehard Norcalers saying a slight “the” some of the time. > … > The North uses it less often and it’s soft. But they do say it. Even traffic reporters. Perhaps it’s a very subliminal “the” that only special ears can hear. I spent about 35 years in Northern California and don’t recall hearing it, not a single time. (Obviously I heard it from Southerners talking about the freeways in their region.) I only heard “Frisco” used by people who were obviously displaced. Instead, the City was often called simply “The City,” even by people in or near the higher-population San Jose. ETA: A phrase like “The 280 Freeway” is in common use. It’s the abbreviated form, “The 280,” that wasn’t heard in the Bay Area. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/127 "2013-08-26T14:45:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My interpretation: > > ‘Take the freeway south.’ > ‘Which freeway?’ > ‘The 405 freeway.’ > > I interpret the sentence as being ‘Take the freeway.’ ‘405’ or ‘I-405’ is the name, and one could reasonably say ‘Take I-405’ south’, but I think that as it is used in SoCal (and other places), you’re saying to take ‘the freeway’. You wouldn’t say ‘Take freeway to San Diego.’ You’d say ‘Take _the_ freeway to San Diego.’ If you add ‘405’ to the sentence, it becomes an adjective, since it is describing _which_ freeway: ‘Take the freeway called 405.’ =\> ‘Take the 405 freeway.’ In use, the noun (‘freeway’) is dropped and the sentence becomes ‘Take the 405.’ This is similar to a conversation that might be used at a Mexican restaurant: > > ‘Should I have the red sauce, or the green sauce?’ > ‘Have the red.’ > Since we know that we’re talking about a sauce (or a freeway), the noun is taken as given. Truman Capote will show you how to use your “articles”: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/znS3gXjGCiU/hqdefault.jpg "Proper English by Truman Capote!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znS3gXjGCiU) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/128 "2013-08-26T16:40:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Perhaps it’s a very subliminal “the” that only special ears can hear. I spent about 35 years in Northern California and don’t recall hearing it, not a single time. (Obviously I heard it from Southerners talking about the freeways in their region.) > > I only heard “Frisco” used by people who were obviously displaced. Instead, the City was often called simply “The City,” even by people in or near the higher-population San Jose. > > ETA: A phrase like “The 280 Freeway” is in common use. It’s the abbreviated form, “The 280,” that wasn’t heard in the Bay Area. You know, up page, post 70 guizot even has a recording of a Norcal traffic reporter saying it. Norcal residents certainly do use it and I don’t get why they protest so much they don’t. Really it’s not like the GWB pronunciation of “nuclear’ or something. I hear “Frisco” used by natives, but mostly as a joke. “The City” ? Only by a certain SF newspaper. Now that “SF” is so very common in text and etc, I do hear “EssEff” a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/129 "2013-08-26T17:01:32Z")
Don’t say “New Ore-LEANS” while in New Orleans unless you want to be marked as a tourist. At least run it together as “New-ORE-lunz”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/130 "2013-08-26T17:10:29Z")
I don’t have anything noteworthy to add, but when I see the thread title, I think to myself, “Hmmm. . . sounds like an Alanis Morissette song title.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/131 "2013-08-26T22:25:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some dudes in NorCal, being rather jealous of the power of SoCal, have decided that “we are better, they are low brow, we are high brow” etc. One tiny difference is the amount and emphasis placed upon “the” before freeway number. Thus, these pseudo- elitists have seized upon this extremely trivial thing to be the Shibboleth between couth North and uncouth South. Not knowing they say it too. Wow. You really take this seriously, don’t you? Saying “the 5” instead of “5” or “highway 5” is a southern California regionalism. That’s not a big deal. It’s not a good thing nor a bad thing. Pretending everyone else in the country says it doesn’t change what it is: an insignificant little piece of dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/132 "2013-08-26T23:45:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know, up page, post 70 guizot even has a recording of a Norcal traffic reporter saying it. Norcal residents certainly do use it and I don’t get why they protest so much they don’t. Really it’s not like the GWB pronunciation of “nuclear’ or something. I think there’s something a little more complicated going on, but I can’t quite place it. As was pointed out, saying “the 880 freeway” is commonplace. Most of the report’s uses that included “the” were of this nature. But there was also an example of “the 880 in Oakland”. It seems that “the” is more likely to appear if there is a noun phrase instead of just a single number. However, “101 South” by itself will never have the “the”, nor will any instance of a number by itself. I only listened to half of **guizot** link, but didn’t hear any contradiction to this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/133 "2013-08-26T23:46:57Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:131, topic:666883”] Wow. You really take this seriously, don’t you? Saying “the 5” instead of “5” or “highway 5” is a southern California regionalism. That’s not a big deal. It’s not a good thing nor a bad thing. Pretending everyone else in the country says it doesn’t change what it is: an insignificant little piece of dialect. [/QUOTE] No, in fact the contrary . The dudes that take it seriously are the ones that insist its such a sharp dividing line, even tho it isn’t. It was other who mentioned what other states usage is. I didn’t even bring it up in th first place, it was others who insist it is important. You are correct, it is insignificant, almost to the point of being nonexistent . ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/134 "2013-08-26T23:50:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Let me try: > Haleakala: Hah-lay-ah-kah-lah > Kaaawa: Kah-ah-ah-wah > Kalanianaole: Kah-lah-nee-ah-nah-oh-lay > Humuhumunukunukuapuaa: Hoo-moo-hoo-moo-noo-koo-noo-koo-ah-poo-ah-ah > > How’d I do? (I’ve never been to Hawaii, except once on a stopover when I was three.) You can visit anytime. 🙂 The W in Ka’a’awa is pronounced as V. Kah-ah-ah-vah. General rule: if the word starts with W, it’s pronounced as W, but if it’s inside the word, it’s V. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/135 "2013-08-26T23:58:44Z")
> [@Geek\_Mecha](#): > > You can visit anytime. 🙂 > > The W in Ka’a’awa is pronounced as V. Kah-ah-ah-vah. General rule: if the word starts with W, it’s pronounced as W, but if it’s inside the word, it’s V. Thanks for the tip. A general rule I follow is that Hawaiian words are pronounced as they’re spelled. (As I said, I’ve never been there; but we have an office in Hawaii and get data from there.) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/136 "2013-08-27T03:33:04Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > You tell whether or not someone is from Connecticut by how they pronounce ‘Naugatuck.’ The proper pronunciation is hard to put into text, but here’s a hint: it’s not three syllables. Can you try? I just drove past it Saturday and need to pronounce it correctly in my head. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/137 "2013-08-27T05:26:34Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Apparently, you’re not supposed to call it meth anymore. It’s uh… what, speed? Who can keep up with those crazy kids these days. Awww, you remembered! I’m touched! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/138 "2013-08-27T05:43:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My interpretation: > > ‘Take the freeway south.’ > ‘Which freeway?’ > ‘The 405 freeway.’ I find your argument unpersuasive. ‘Take the avenue south.’ ‘Which avenue?’ ‘The Madison Avenue.’ > [@SirGalahad](#): > > Truman Capote will show you how to use your “articles”: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znS3gXjGCiU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znS3gXjGCiU) “Shh, cow talk again.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/139 "2013-08-27T07:46:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know, up page, post 70 guizot even has a recording of a Norcal traffic reporter saying it. Norcal residents certainly do use it and I don’t get why they protest so much they don’t. Really it’s not like the GWB pronunciation of “nuclear’ or something. I don’t know whether “we” protest about it. I’m just sharing my experiences. 🙂 Three possible mitigations: (1) California has great mobility. (Heck even I lived a year in SoCal – but before they had freeways.) It’s surprising that the “The”/“[del]the[/del]” differentiation can be maintained at all. Did you ask the alleged Norcal traffic reporter for her birth certificate? (2) In the clip, she mentions “101 southbound”, “101 southbound”, “the 880 freeway”, “the 237 freeway”, “the 880 in oakland” … “The” is missing from both occurrences of “101”; that “the” is prepended when “freeway” is postpended is not in dispute; in “the 880 in oakland”, “freeway” can be considered elided. It may seem I’m grasping at straws, but the diction just doesn’t _sound_ like Socal’s “the.” 😉 (3) I moved to California when Eisenhower was President, and left under Clinton. I acept no responsibility for subsequent changes! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883/140 "2013-08-27T13:12:00Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I find your argument unpersuasive. > > ‘Take the avenue south.’ > ‘Which avenue?’ > ‘The Madison Avenue.’ You changed the noun to a proper noun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-call-it/666883.md?page=8)