# Please don't fire a gun at anyone unless you absolutely have to **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716 "2016-03-02T06:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/41 "2016-03-03T05:00:55Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > I keep whispering “do it! do it!” while they sleep, but haven’t gotten so much as a nibble… > > Maybe I should ask Ann Landers? Just record it, and play it backwards. Works every time. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/42 "2016-03-03T05:21:27Z")
The whole “unarmed black person” thing annoys me. Do you seriously think cops just roam the streets looking for an unarmed black person to shoot? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/43 "2016-03-03T06:11:31Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The whole “unarmed black person” thing annoys me. Do you seriously think cops just roam the streets looking for an unarmed black person to shoot? No. I think some cops are irrationally afraid of black people, which sometimes leads them to fire without cause. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/44 "2016-03-03T06:23:54Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > No. I think some cops are irrationally afraid of black people, which sometimes leads them to fire without cause. Why would they irrationally be afraid of black people? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/45 "2016-03-03T06:28:36Z")
It’s irrational. It is intrinsically tough to pin down. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/46 "2016-03-03T06:31:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > It’s irrational. It is intrinsically tough to pin down. yet i’m supposed to accept it without any proof ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/47 "2016-03-03T06:46:02Z")
A trained lawman with a firearm is afraid of an unknown and will fire without cause. In a sci-fi or occult setting maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/48 "2016-03-03T07:09:48Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > yet i’m supposed to accept it without any proof Look for proof in all the unarmed black people shot by the police. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/49 "2016-03-03T08:57:13Z")
^ That is not proof. Police don’t shoot every unarmed black person they see. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/50 "2016-03-03T14:11:57Z")
Seems to me we can solve about 2/3rds of gun violence by deciding that folks who commit suicide are free citizens who’ve accomplished their goal. Once that’s not violence, but simply a personal medical decision, the problem becomes much more tractable. And we know they won’t reoffend. If we’re seriously talking about decriminalizing and de-stigmatizing some significant fraction of currently illegal drugs (a stance I support for its favorable impact on crime and on overweaning police powers) and reprioritizing our efforts towards a medical approach of harm reduction, then it seems only sensible to approach suicide the same way. Make it easy for those folks to off themselves & get out of the way. If we can’t quite bring ourselves that far, at least reclassify a gun suicide as not “gun violence.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/51 "2016-03-03T14:21:04Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Besides, those bullets need a reason for existing. They can’t just sit around wondering what it’s all been for. Killing a human is right up there on seriousness of bullet-life purpose. I know, right? If I was a bullet and nobody ever shot me at someone, it would just kill me inside. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/52 "2016-03-03T14:48:35Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > yet i’m supposed to accept it without any proof We can draw conclusions from the relative frequency of shootings of unarmed black people versus unarmed white people. The case of [John Crawford III](http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/justice/walmart-shooting-john-crawford/) (the guy who was shot at Walmart because he was holding a toy gun in the toy gun aisle). [Levar Jones’](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/) case is an even better example. That is not to say that most or even many police shootings are unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/53 "2016-03-03T14:56:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That is not to say that most or even many police shootings are unjustified. Yet they could be. Depends on your definition of ‘justified’. That term has been used to mean the minimum possible requirements to make a shooting allowable. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/54 "2016-03-03T15:22:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Seems to me we can solve about 2/3rds of gun violence by deciding that folks who commit suicide are free citizens who’ve accomplished their goal. > > Once that’s not violence, but simply a personal medical decision, the problem becomes much more tractable. And we know they won’t reoffend. > > If we’re seriously talking about decriminalizing and de-stigmatizing some significant fraction of currently illegal drugs (a stance I support for its favorable impact on crime and on overweaning police powers) and reprioritizing our efforts towards a medical approach of harm reduction, then it seems only sensible to approach suicide the same way. Make it easy for those folks to off themselves & get out of the way. If we can’t quite bring ourselves that far, at least reclassify a gun suicide as not “gun violence.” I don’t know, smoking a joint seems completely different from firing a shotgun at your head. Suicide isn’t always ‘victimless’ and often is the result of mental issues. Take the example of returned soldiers. When they kill themselves, are we just going to say, “well, they accomplished their goal”? Or do you think maybe we should take better care of our soldiers? I am going to stick with, “Please don’t shoot yourself.” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/55 "2016-03-03T15:59:11Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Would it be okay if I just avoided pointing my kitchen knives at and/or stabbing people? Daddy always said “Son, never don’t avoid bringing a knife to an imaginary gun fight”. As usual, I replied simply “Yes, sir” and took the glue away. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/56 "2016-03-03T16:23:15Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > … > Take the example of returned soldiers. When they kill themselves, are we just going to say, “well, they accomplished their goal”? Or do you think maybe we should take better care of our soldiers? > … Soldiers are a special case in that the vast majority of vets with mental issues were fine when they entered the service. We (the people through our government) did that to them, and we (the people through our government) owe them proper care, both mental and physical. The current VA is disgraceful both in top-line funding and in bottom-line results. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/57 "2016-03-03T16:25:04Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m taking the other side. I think people have to shoot as many people as possible. What is the point of having guns if not to kill other people? If everybody had a gun and we did it just right everyone could kill someone and be killed all at the same time. Aren’t we always looking for people to come together, to put aside their differences and act towards a common goal? Well this could be it. _Come on people now Fire on your brother Everybody get together Try to off one another Right now_ ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/58 "2016-03-03T16:42:19Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Look for proof in all the unarmed black people shot by the police. Each instance is an individual case which must be examined individually. Grouping them together does nothing but confuse the issues. Like for example the recent Michael Brown case. It is clear to anyone who examines the facts of the case that Michael Brown was not an innocent who just happened to look at an officer the wrong way. Yet if we abstracted the case and just looked at it as Cop shoots unarmed black man then the facts of the case lose their meaning. As someone who has worked in a similar field (soldier) I understand the split second decisions required and that if you wait for a person to start shooting at you, which happens about 1/10th of a second after you find out they’re armed, then you’re not going home and your family gets a nice flag draped over your coffin. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yfi3Ndh3n-g/maxresdefault.jpg "Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios | FOX 10 News") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/59 "2016-03-04T02:34:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We can draw conclusions from the relative frequency of shootings of unarmed black people versus unarmed white people. The case of [John Crawford III](http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/justice/walmart-shooting-john-crawford/) (the guy who was shot at Walmart because he was holding a toy gun in the toy gun aisle). He wasn’t holding a toy gun in a toy aisle. He was holding a [Crossman MK-177](http://www.crosman.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30117_3_2.jpg) air rifle which shoots pellets at 800 fps. Not only is it not a toy it looks like a serious weapon. He was standing in the pet supplies aisle after walking around the story waving it around. He also had marijuana in his system so his poor choices had a fuel source. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716/60 "2016-03-04T02:44:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > _Come on people now > Fire on your brother > Everybody get together > Try to off one another > Right now_ Close the thread. We have a winner. That was _fantastic_. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-dont-fire-a-gun-at-anyone-unless-you-absolutely-have-to/747716.md?page=4)