Wring, no. The first two comments didn’t bother me in the slightest because I took jjim’s comment to be a humorous combining of the events depicted in the link and a spin on how our government has a tendency to “declare war” on anything they don’t like (poverty, drugs, etc.) as opposed to Bush’s current “War on Terrorism”, all of which was instituted by Gorgon Heap’s preceding post. ShibbOleth’s comment I took to be a furthering of GH’s and jjim’s posts with a general humorous potshot against our government in the typical “look at how incompetent and corrupt the politicians are” which has been popular for centuries, and not necessarily against the Bush administration, and even if it was a shot against Bush I’d write it off as a bit of SNL humor concerning a popular conception of the President.
Then we get to Zebra. Whereas the first two comments seem to have the potential to fall within the realm of humor or satire, Zebra’s post coupled with his weak defense against Bricker’s comments made it clear that he was just taking the opportunity to make a knee-jerk shot against the President and humor or some sort of political insight were of no importance to him. He has an axe to grind against the President and he did it in a thread that has nothing to do with his personal opinion of the man.
In other words, I took jjim’s and ShibbOleth’s posts to be mild continuances of a hijack made in the name of humor, a common, if not excusable, occurrence on the Straight Dope. Zebra just wanted to take the opportunity presented by that hijack to make a drive by shot at Bush because he doesn’t like him.
And in case you are implying that I’m some sort of mindless Bush supporter I can assure that unless all of the other candidates in the 2004 election are complete incompetents Bush will not get my vote. I’m just tired of having random snide shots against him popping out of every third thread that has nothing in any way, shape, or form to do with him. Such behavior is distracting and infantile.
Diaper changing in the bathroom in a airplane is really difficult - nigh on impossible if you have a toddler in diapers. There simply isn’t room for a toddler to lie down - and you still need to fit you in there as well. I know this was a little baby, but that doesn’t make it much easier - the baby fits, but with no restraining straps and lots of hard edges in a bathroom, plus air turbulence, it wouldn’t feel safe for me. (Baby facilities in airplanes - and airports - could in general use some improvement).
I’m going to break something to you guys - poop stinks even when its in the diaper. It doesn’t really matter where the diaper is changed - by the time the diaper is being changed its too late - the smell is out (sometimes, with my daughter, you know she needs to be changed from the next room - we could be at the back of the plane and first class would know she needed to be changed). The exception to this is the poop of exclusively breastfed babies. Breastmilk poop doesn’t stink (I always thought it smelled faintly of peaches). As this baby was four months old and breastfed, there wouldn’t have been a stink.
Last trip I was on they’d pulled out the back seats, which left a little room on the floor at the back of the plane. A couple moms were using that space to change diapers - and give the toddlers four square feet of walking room (an adult couldn’t stand because of the overheads). A gentleman was stretching back their for a while as well (I’ve never seen downward dog on a plane before).
Would it be that darn difficult for the airlines to seat people with babies and young children at the back of the plane in the first place - if you are going to be moving them back there if anyone complains anyway? I know traveling with small children I’d rather be near the bathroom - they can’t always wait for the beverage cart to stop blocking the aisle. When the flights attendants aren’t moving around, they tend to be back there and can help out (children tend to need more than a single beverage service), and crying babies are a little less disruptive at the back of the plane.
I agree we don’t know how abusive “mom” was being. But in the PR war - taking on a Canadian mom with a four month old baby and using the word terrorist is just plain dumb no matter how sleep deprived and foul mouthed mom was - that’s one where you say “excuse me” and you ask to be moved.
As a father of a beautiful 4 1/2 month old daughter who has already had two airplane trips together, I agree it is difficult to change a diaper in the airplane bathroom. HOWEVER, changing a diaper in your seat is unacceptable. True, the odor is out BUT diapers leak, babies pee/poop during changing, etc. This would result in a person, in their seat, getting crapped on. This is just plain wrong. There are other places on the plane where a change can occur (like the floor by the doors - big, open area). Now maybe I’m fast or maybe a 4 1/2 month old isn’t bad but I can get the average diaper change done in under 60 seconds. (Yes, another thing for men to boast about).
And as for the article, while the man (in my opinion) was a neanderthal in being upset that she was breastfeeding next to him (assuming this is all that was going on), I think she should be respectful of him and go to the back of the plane. Of course, if FAA regulations did not allow her to get out of her seat, they should have let her feed in her seat. I mean she was covering herself up, right?
Asylum -
I’m not at all suggesting that you’re a mindless Bush supporter, or a mind full Bush supporter, or a Bush supporter at all.
The way I saw it, there were 3 people who’s posts sorta flowed together into a Bush slam, and wondered why the three of you pounced on Zebra. Just curious why. I don’t agree w/your assessment (thought the ‘this is the wrong administration for that’ was much more of a Bush slam than “uniter/divider” thing), wondered if there was prior history or something. Sounds like there was a bit of one (sorta like folks will often pounce on a december drive by pretty quickly, 'cause he’s got a large history)
But this is yet another side tracking of the thread.
I don’t care about the technical details but there’s no way you are changing your kid’s diapers when you are seated next to me in an airplane. No way. It’s your kid and your problem, not mine and if you can’t do it in the toilet then you should not be in an airplane in the first place.
OTOH, you can breastfeed your baby as much as you like. and I’ll even volunteer to breastfeed from you myself if you forgot your baby at home.
**“He marched past me and to the very back of the cabin to talk to the flight attendant,” she wrote. “He told her, ‘This woman just assaulted me.’ … He then explained that the asking of two questions by a ‘foreign national’ in international airspace made him feel the victim of terror and as such he wanted to file an assault charge.” **
I just re-read the article and the man wasn’t even sitting NEXT to her. It just said that he was sitting NEAR her and got up out of his seat to confront her. It doesn’t sound like this was extremely inconveniencing the guy since he wasn’t next to her or even in her row.
Changing the diapers in the seat isn’t exactly the most sanitary idea but if there was no one next to her or in the row, then it’s not the worst thing either.
I also find it ridiculous that a refusal to use one’s own things over the airline’s things would result in a complaint.
There still sounds like there is more to the story but the man seems to be really at fault since he wasn’t even sitting next to her. JMO though.
Thank you very much. I too find it strange that my comment was singled out.
I also want to thank the others for their concern about the quantity of my wit. I have assurances from my doctors that I have at least 3/4 of my wits but with hard work, perseverance and the right medications I should be able to be fully witted in the very near future.
I personally would probably complain just because those seats aren’t as carefully/frequently cleaned as bathrooms are. I’d hate to be the next person to sit there and get a missed glob of baby poop on my clothing, or even unwittingly get fecal bacteria on my hands. Just my feeling about it, though.
I’d have to agree. Changing tables are made from plastic, making them easily wiped down and disinfected. Seats are cloth and would need to be deep-cleaned to get the bacteria off. I have absolutely no problem with the woman breastfeeding on the plane (hell, I’ll probably do the same when I have kids), but she should have taken the baby to the bathroom to change his diaper.
However, I must add that the man in the story is a raving asshole who should be tied to the back end of a quarter horse after the horse has just been fed a nice big bowl of chili.
I’m not sure how you’d change a diaper in your seat. I’ve always done it in open floor space - either by the door or back by the bathrooms. But I have never done it “in” the bathroom as my kids were too big when we traveled to make bathroom changing possible.
As long as I’m talking about the pooping habits of babies - do we know that the diaper was poopy? Some babies only poop once a day (one of my girlfriends had a baby that only pooped once a week - it did involve washing the baby, the jammies, the linens, mommy and daddy, the crib, and the walls when it occured - its a lieu like tale). Wet diapers - the common type - aren’t nearly as icky nor as prone to carrying nasty germs.
And if the baby did poop - does changing the diaper in the bathroom save any inconvience - or was the baby prone to blow-outs anyway - in which case no matter where you change the baby, the place where the baby was is going to need a good cleaning.
My daughter just treated me to a blow out yesterday - and in public (at the Children’s Museum).
I don’t think the point is really whether there was a chance (which there was - even if it was low) of the baby pooping or peeing on the guy. The point, IMHO, is that there are certain things we should expect NOT to be exposed to depending on where we are. For example, in an airplane seat, it is reasonable to expect not to be exposed to a dirty diaper (no matter what the contents). In an airplance seat, it is reasonable to expect TO be exposed to a breastfeeding baby.
It’s all about worst-case scenarios.
Feeding baby - worst-case, you see a boob.
Changing baby - worst-case, you’re covered in shit.
Well, worst case feeding a baby - if you are going there - is that you’ll be covered in breast milk when mom lets down before baby is latched - which are bodily fluids.
My point isn’t about worst case scenarios - just that everyone jumped from “changing a diaper” to “poop all over the place.” I’ve changed far more diapers that haven’t involved any poop at all.
In Western society we have all sort of agreed that the excretion of waste is something that should be done with a higher degree of privacy than the ingesting of nutrition.
We have restrooms with urinals and dividers and stalls because we all live under the same expectation that when it’s time for the pissing and shitting, it’s not the time to expose friends, family and perfect strangers to our eminations.
I don’t care which it was that someone excreted or how old they were, I don’t want their ass being wiped and pants being changed in front of me on an airplane. I don’t want the 89 year-old man in the row in front of me to change his underwear in front of me, I don’t want the 20 year-old woman next to me to change her underwear in front of me, and I don’t want to see someone change the underwear (diaper) of their 4 month-old kid in front of me.
Like it or not those are the boundaries this society has set up. Whether or not those ‘taboos’ are really reasonable is a whole other debate, but the fact remains that in the society we all live in, when food goes in your mouth it can be a public affair but when waste comes out your ass, it’s a private moment. To say to another person ‘Oh but it’s just a diaper with piss in it. No big deal’ is to say ‘I will not follow the polite rules of private excretion in this society’ and that is rude.
I don’t want someone else’s urine and feces near me, hell, I try to get away from my own as fast as possible by depositing it in a toilet and then flushing it immediately away. Anyone who would like to invade my personal space on this issue may face my version of Hammurabi’s Code.
