# Please enlighten me on D&D **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016 "2000-11-06T22:16:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/61 "2000-12-04T17:10:33Z")
Kyberneticist wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, I know from flipping through some D&D DM plot books that spells can be triggered by certain actions. If I was worried about arrows of slaying, which seem to go for the heart, I’d have the trigger be the breaking of an amulet worn over my heart. I thought “triggered” spells could only be placed over an area, not a character or portable object. Is there some kind of “trigger this spell” spell in, say, the 2nd Edition _Tome of Magic_ that can cause a spell to be triggered by an action performed against a character, preferably before the action takes effect? Also, I don’t believe an arrow of slaying is defined as attacking the heart. According to the DMG (1st and 2nd Edition), it just “slays”. There are arrows of slaying undead, for example, and undead don’t generally have a functioning heart. Fortunately, I just noticed a magic item in the 2nd Edition DMG called **Gloves of Missile Snaring**. They allow a wearer with one or more empty hands to snatch small missiles out of the air before they hit. That would take care of _arrows_ of slaying – but it would _not_ protect you against, say, a “ballista projectile of slaying” (the gloves can’t affect siege missiles). Nor would it protect you against a “dagger of slaying,” if you could somehow factor the arrow-of-slaying power into a melee weapon. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/62 "2000-12-04T17:12:20Z")
Johnny Angel: That was beautiful, man! _snif_ I still get tears in my eyes reading it! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/63 "2000-12-04T20:34:43Z")
Johnny Angel wrote: > [@](#): > > “Bahamut’s A.C. negative three to Tiamat’s zero. Plus, he attacks as a twenty-first level warrior, compared to Tiamat’s feeble sixteenth-level attacks. That makes Tiamat 15 percent more vulnerable and 25% less deadly than the king of dragons. Give it up.” Plus, don’t forget, for every 16 damage points Tiamat takes from the _front_, she loses one of her five heads. Each head she loses eliminates one of her bite attacks per round (and one of her breath weapons, if she hasn’t used it yet that day). And if she takes 48 damage points from the side or rear, she’s dead. Bahamut in 2 melee rounds. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/64 "2000-12-05T02:13:23Z")
Actually, reading through the descriptions in the Monster Manual, I see that Bahamut can do a disintegrating sonic breath weapon two times a day for 150 hit points. If Tiamat fails her save, she’s toast in one round. Two rounds if she makes her save. But you’ll notice that while gamers in real life have these kinds of conversations, gamers in the movies talk about demons, and never mention stats. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/65 "2000-12-05T03:03:51Z")
Not true. At least twice in _Mazes and Monsters_, I heard Tom Hanks say “level”. (The scriptwriters obviously had no idea what “level” meant, but then again, this was a movie that went on the presumption that D&D players light mysterious candles when they play and eventually become delusional and think the New York subway system is a dungeon.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/66 "2000-12-05T03:23:07Z")
I suppose the book would be a better indication of what the controversy actually was, since it came out first, and was responsible for a good deal of the controversy by itself. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/67 "2000-12-05T03:50:07Z")
There was a **book** called _Mazes and Monsters_, on which the made-for-TV movie was based? Oh great. Even “literary” writer types have no idea what D&D is about. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/68 "2000-12-05T04:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*There was a **book** called _Mazes and Monsters_, on which the made-for-TV movie was based? > > Oh great. Even “literary” writer types have no idea what D&D is about. \*\* In fact, there _was_ a Mazes and Monsters book. (Written by Rona Jaffe.) I think, though, that Johnny was referring to the book Cruel Doubt, which pretty much started the anti-FRPG paranoia on a grand scale. ---
**Author:** ![keeper0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@keeper0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeper0)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/69 "2000-12-05T04:58:32Z")
Lurkernomore said: > [@](#): > > Have you considered trying to play in a chat room online? I was trying with some friends, and while we don’t have an online dice roller, it hasn’t been bad, for some D&D newbies and a relatively inexperineced DM. Try [WebRPG.com](http://WebRPG.com) They have a FREE java script chat environment tailored to role playing, complete with die rollers, charachter sheets, maps, miniatures and even sound effects. (All of which can be customized by the user). I was playing a game on that system and it worked fairly well. We had occasional problems with the game locking up (like once every 3-4 hours), but that seemed to be fixed on their latest upgrage. Unfortunately, my GM had to go and have a baby. Now he claims he doesn’t have time to appease my addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/70 "2000-12-05T05:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > I thought “triggered” spells could only be placed over an area, not a character or portable object. Is there some kind of “trigger this spell” spell in, say, the 2nd Edition _Tome of Magic_ that can cause a spell to be triggered by an action performed against a character, preferably before the action takes effect? Contingency and Chain Contingency–each can be triggered by any detectable event and activate a precast spell or a series thereof. Now I remember them–one of my really high-level characters had a chain contingency that would bail him out if he were ever captured by drow (he was a renegade). You could trigger on “An arrow of X-slaying approaches within [20ft/10ft/6 inches/whatever] of my body” to teleport to safety instantly. Or you could trigger on “a foe attacks me with a weapon of X-slaying”. These would work, but you have to be careful of your phrasing–DMs like to twist and false-trigger contingencies. > [@](#): > > Also, I don’t believe an arrow of slaying is defined as attacking the heart. According to the DMG (1st and 2nd Edition), it just “slays”. There are arrows of slaying undead, for example, and undead don’t generally have a functioning heart. I may have misremembered, or perhaps it was a work of fiction. I just vaguely recall an arrow of giant slaying burrowing in and seeking out the heart. You’re absolutely right that that wouldn’t make sense for an undead-slayer, though (except a vampire–just have a headless wooden arrow). As a DM, I would probably rule that shapechanging into something else would defend against it, particularly if you choose your shape well. After all, that’s a 9th level spell you’re using to stop it, and it’s an imaginative use of the spell at that. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/71 "2000-12-05T17:22:03Z")
Huh. Well, I’ll be darned. There it is, the _Contingency_ spell, right there amongst all the other 6th-level wizard spells in the 2nd Edition _PHB_. And in the _Tome of Magic_, there’s the 9th-level _Chain Contingency_ spell. You’re right, these ought to be enough to get a disgusting character out of trouble from an arrow-of-slaying-powered weapon _once_. But then they’d need to be cast again – only one _contingency_ spell and one_chain contingency_ spell can be in effect on the same spellcaster at the same time, and the contingencies that trigger them can’t overlap. (Fortunately, if they’re not triggered, their durations are 1 day/level; so for a 50000th level mage they’ll last about 150 years before needing to be cast again.) It’d be nicer if the character didn’t have to teleport out of the way every time someone attacked him/her with a slaying weapon, though. ---
**Author:** ![Pudgy\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Pudgy\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pudgy_Dog)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/72 "2000-12-05T20:06:58Z")
**tracer** , I was going by the pamphlet that WotC sent to the stores. It said that the best way to change your campaign over to 3rd Ed was to kill off everyones 2nd Ed characters and start over. However, if you were too attached to your character, you could take the time to change it over, but the character wouldn’t be up to snuff with a 3rd Ed character of the same level. If you have access to either Dungeon Magazine or Dragon Adventures, there were several advertisements for 3rd Ed that implyed that you should start killing off characters. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/73 "2000-12-05T20:21:39Z")
**Pudgy Dog** : Hrm … that’s odd. The 2nd-to-3rd-Edition Conversion Kit that comes with the 3rd Edition PHB allows your converted characters to retroactively raise their stats, acquire more skills, etc… The only ways I could think of that an Nth level character converted to 3rd Edition from 2nd Edition would be weaker than an Nth level character created from scratch in 3rd Edition would be: (A) if the character was dual-class or multi-classed, or (B) if 3rd Edition random treasure generation tables tend to be more “Monty Haul”-like. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/74 "2000-12-05T22:38:10Z")
Hmmm… I used to play D&D when I was a kid. Loved it. Used to round up my younger cousins and make them players and I was the DM. Does anyone know of a resource to find a game in a particular area? I’m having fantasies of ongoing D&D games meeting once a week, playing with adults and maybe having a few beers at the same time. Doing web searches on “Dungeons and Dragons Colorado” and “RPG colorado” comes up with nothing but internet games. Real life games sound MUCH more fun! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/75 "2000-12-05T23:14:01Z")
Oh, now _this_ is interesting: According to the 2nd Edition DMG, a ring of regeneration (the common, non-vampiric variety) has the power to, quote, “bring its wearer back from death.” The only limits it gives to this power are:[ul][li]It won’t bring back someone whose living tissue was totally destroyed (via fire or acid, for example),[/li][li]It must stay on the dead wearer’s finger to bring him back to life, and[/li][li]If the wearer died because of poison, he has to make another saving throw vs. poison or die again.[/ul]It seems from this description that the ring should revive someone killed by a death ray, a finger of death, a death spell, **or an arrow of slaying!** [/li] The ring restores 1 hit point of damage per turn, so logically, if the character was killed by being reduced to -25 hit points, it should take 25 turns for the ring to bring the character back to life. Unfortunately, the rules don’t say how long it takes for a ring of regeneration to bring its wearer back to life if he was killed by something other than damage points. Theoretically, if the wearer still had positive hit points after he was hit by an arrow of slaying, a ring of regeneration could bring him back to life the _instant_ he died! I think I’ve just found my defense against an arrow of slaying. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/76 "2000-12-05T23:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Unfortunately, the rules don’t say how long it takes for a ring of regeneration to bring its wearer back to life if he was killed by something other than damage points. Hmmm…I think this would be a DM call. I’ve always regarded the RoR as a life-support-with-healing item. No matter how battered you are, it doesn’t let you die–then when the battering stops, it heals you. I think that as a DM, I probably wouldn’t allow it to bring a character back from anything that kills with an unspecified amount of damage. I wouldn’t argue with another DM who chose to allow it, though. I think it’ll work for your purposes. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/77 "2000-12-06T00:15:05Z")
Darn. I kinda like the idea of a character getting hit with an arrow of slaying, looking down at it, popping it out of his chest, then going after the archer who shot him: Archer: “Hey, what gives? I just shot you with an arrow of slaying! You should be dead!” Character: “I _was_ dead. For a couple of milliseconds. Then my ring of regeneration brought me back. Heck, I didn’t even lose any hit points in the deal, other than the pathetically few damage points your arrow of slaying caused me by virtue of its being a +3 arrow, and I’ll regenerate those in an hour or two.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/78 "2000-12-07T21:53:10Z")
Can a spellcaster who’s inside an anti-magic shell cast a spell whose area of effect (or affected target) is outside the anti-magic shell? The spell description doesn’t say whether spell _casting_ fails, only that it prevents the _functioning_ of spells _within_ its confines. (The description also says that an antimagic shell prevents the _passage_ of spells or their effects, but is not clear as to whether it merely prevents spells and spell effects from passing _into_ its confines, or whether it also prevents spells and spell effects from passing _out of_ its confines.) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/79 "2000-12-07T22:47:49Z")
Tracer, we always played the AMS as a no-cast zone–no matter where the spell effect was targeted. It depends a bit on your magical philosophy, if you’ve developed one. My 2 co-DM’s and I worked out a detailed explanation of the physics of magic in our campaign world. It helped us stay consistent in our rulings–we didn’t want any “But Joe let us do it this way!” arguments. Is your question for a campaign, or for the disgusting character stories? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016/80 "2000-12-08T00:52:20Z")
Why, the latter, of course. 😉 Actually, I’m more interested in the “official” ruling as handed down by the Holy TSR Court of Appeals over the years. If there is such a thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-enlighten-me-on-d-d/40016.md?page=5)