# Please explain DeSantis and Disneyland to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730 "2023-03-04T19:51:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/21 "2023-03-05T08:43:38Z")
That’s fine in my book, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/22 "2023-03-05T08:52:43Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > the inflationary use of strong words like “fascist” is offensive to the victims of actual fascism. LGBT+ people in Florida, and other red states, are victims of actual fascism. It is not necessary to wait until people are literally being marched into gas chambers to call it what it is. > **[CPAC Speaker Calls for Eradication of 'Transgenderism' -- and Somehow Claims...](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/)** > > “For the good of society... transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely,” Daily Wire's Michael Knowles told the CPAC audience. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/23 "2023-03-05T10:19:46Z")
And then people complain about “divisiveness” in political rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/24 "2023-03-05T11:54:12Z")
If one side keeps trying to eradicate their opponents by using divisiiveness as a tactic then they should complain. DeSantis is openly and actively waging a war against the LGBT+ community in order to draw favor from the fascist base. Why can’t his type run on issues that would benifit all Americans without riling up hatefullness? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/25 "2023-03-05T13:20:18Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Why can’t his type run on issues that would benifit all Americans without riling up hatefullness? > ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/26 "2023-03-05T13:57:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Disneyland is in California. > Disney _ **World** _ is in Florida I was actually wondering about that but, TBH, was too lazy to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/27 "2023-03-05T15:11:03Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > There’s lots of language that you can use to describe it, so I’m not going to give a list, but the inflationary use of strong words like “fascist” is offensive to the victims of actual fascism. The performative umbrage over the claimed misuse of the term ‘fascist’ masks the reality that what is most offensive to “the actual victims of fascism” is not calling it out by name as it emerges for fear of being seen as “inflationary”. If the term were being used to describe Nixon, Reagan, or G.B. Bush (as it has by many of their critics) then your objection would have merit because while all of them lied to the public and engaged in various criminal actions and cover-uos, none of them could be described as consistently using the tactics and modalities of fascist movements. But DeSantis is using classical fascist tactics, and specifically creating an imagined threat from a powerless scapegoat and then using both law and every amount of executive authority he can muster to attack the supposed threat while stirring up hateful public sentiment toward them, all to the end of gaining power and legal authority without check. DeSantis is quite explicitly an emerging fascist politician in a deliberate and concerted way that previous conservative Republicans were not, and this insistence that we should not use that term for fear of offending “the actual victims of fascism” is disingenuous to the extreme, especially while people on the right—including the supposed journalists of Fox News—openly label Biden as a “Marxist”, and nobody consistently objects to the blatant misuse of that term except actual Marxists who understand that Biden definitely isn’t one of them. This semantic articulation to find a way of describing what DeSantis is and what he is doing that does not use the appropriate and recognisable term is tiresome and ridiculous. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/28 "2023-03-05T15:24:15Z")
Agree completely w @Stranger_On_A_Train. But I’ll note that @Schnitte is a German born in Germany who (AFAIK) has lived there all his life. Things might look a little differently from the POV of a reasonable German, Italian, or other Western European than they do to a reasonable American. The nicest thing one can say about DeSantis and his followers is that they are proto-fascists, totally trying to engineer a fascist-inspired takeover of the USA. They may still be learning on the job, but their intent is already not only solidified in their minds, but crystal clear in the minds of both their adherents and their detractors. If someone, particularly an American, wants to make the semantic quibble that until the fascist takeover is complete they aren’t yet “real fascists”, well … to this observer that seems like at best misguided hyper-correction and at worst attempted salami-slicing in deliberate service of a hoped-for fascist takeover. Neither of those are good looks. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/29 "2023-03-05T15:49:48Z")
Disneyland is an old fantasy theme park in southern California. Florida is a fantasy theme state in the southeast and DeSantis is the current governor. Both are places detached from reality. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/30 "2023-03-05T16:11:07Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > My understanding is that originally DeSantis was going to get rid of the special improvement district altogether, and that would have transferred the debt to the surrounding counties. Instead, the district still exists , was renamed and is now run by a board of DeSantis appointees Good point. I think the Reedy Creek Improvement District (the quasi-governmental agency that Disney controlled) had a billion dollars or so in debt that would have been transferred to Orange and Osceola Counties, had it been abolished. So DeSantis found a lesser punishment for Disney. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/31 "2023-03-05T18:14:55Z")
There’s a whole 'nother thread on whether DeSantis is a “fascist.” It looks like one way that DeSantis is following in Trump’s footsteps is that each argument about him in a thread bleeds into every other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/32 "2023-03-05T19:16:09Z")
No goosestepping in the Main Street Parade? /s 🥸 ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/33 "2023-03-05T20:32:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But I’ll note that @Schnitte is a German born in Germany who (AFAIK) has lived there all his life. This is so lame - explaining my opinions away as a result of my national background. And it’s not even factually true, because I have been living outside Germany (am doing so right now). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/34 "2023-03-05T20:47:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Um, how about "sleazy opportunist whose political games [cost Florida taxpayers money"](https://theintercept.com/2023/02/05/ron-desantis-florida-villages-oren-miller/)? That description doesn’t cut it – it could apply to any garden-variety grifter who is in it for the money but doesn’t actively pursue a fascist agenda as DeSantis is. The distinction is nicely captured by this C. S. Lewis quote: > The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/35 "2023-03-05T22:06:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > On the other hand, Disney won’t be able to bypass environmental regulations and building codes since their fiefdom has been taken over by the state. Have they been? And are environmental regulations not state-wide or even nation-wide? > [@BigT](#): > > Disney didn’t do this out of the goodness of their heart, but only after a huge outcry from said workers. Disney was pro LGBT before this, it is just that they din’t want to cause a controversy. > [@Schnitte](#): > > There’s lots of language that you can use to describe it, so I’m not going to give a list, but the inflationary use of strong words like “fascist” is offensive to the victims of actual fascism. Good point. > [@Smapti](#): > > LGBT+ people in Florida, and other red states, are victims of actual fascism. No, they are victims of _bigotry._ Yeah, that is a very inflammatory article, but the person saying that i s Daily Wire host Michael Knowles, not anyone holding significant public office, and by no means is that the law. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But DeSantis is using classical fascist tactics, Which are also classical _Right Wing Populist_ tactics, which is exactly what DeSantis is or perhaps "proto-fascist or fascist wanna-be Mind you, Right Wing Populism can morph into fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/36 "2023-03-05T22:22:13Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > There’s lots of language that you can use to describe it, so I’m not going to give a list, but the inflationary use of strong words like “fascist” is offensive to the victims of actual fascism. Complaining about accurate descriptions of DeSantis’ government is offensive to victims of DeSantis’ government. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/37 "2023-03-05T22:27:31Z")
The whole thing is so strange. By any reasonable standard, it’s actually Disney’s administrative district itself that’s semi-fascist. Merging of corporate and government power is one of the key pillars of fascism. Why should Disney have the same authority as a government body? It’s undemocratic. And yet here we are, where it’s the _left_ that’s defending the megacorp and the right trying to reduce their influence. If it were almost anyone else, the left would be cheering it on. But it’s _not_ anyone else; it’s DeSantis, who obviously is trying to exert influence over them in the only way he knows how, and obviously isn’t doing so for consistent ideological reasons, and is really just treating this as a test case for further power grabs. Still… modern politics is weird. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/38 "2023-03-05T22:43:22Z")
This is why I’m terribly conflicted about the whole thing - I never thought that “Disney government “ should have been allowed , and then they changed the borders so that the residents of Celebration couldn’t ruin things for Disney which in my opinion just made it worse. And if that special district had been dissolved for any almost reason other than to punish Disney for expressing disagreement with DeSantis, I would have been fine with it. But here I am , thinking that Disney shouldn’t have lost the special treatment for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/39 "2023-03-05T22:48:01Z")
It’s not like these “special districts” controlled by some large business are all that special. Florida has about 1900 of them. If a reformer wanted to get rid of all of them, I’d maybe agree that they have a point. But when someone wants to get rid of just one specific one, just because the business that controls it offended him… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730/40 "2023-03-05T22:50:21Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > By any reasonable standard, it’s actually Disney’s administrative district itself that’s semi-fascist. Merging of corporate and government power is one of the key pillars of fascism. Why should Disney have the same authority as a government body? It’s undemocratic. There is that. But they don’t seem to be returning authority to the local government bodies, which presumably are the ones that would otherwise have it. Instead, they’re taking it over at the state level; specifically for a purpose oppressive of the citizens. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Still… modern politics is weird. That’s for sure. > [@doreen](#): > > I never thought that “Disney government “ should have been allowed , and then they changed the borders so that the residents of Celebration couldn’t ruin things for Disney which in my opinion just made it worse. And if that special district had been dissolved for any almost reason other than to punish Disney for expressing disagreement with DeSantis, I would have been fine with it. But here I am , thinking that Disney shouldn’t have lost the special treatment for this reason. Yeah. I came into this thread partly due to wondering if there wasn’t discussion of this, and if it would help clear my own mind. > [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not like these “special districts” controlled by some large business are all that special. Florida has about 1900 of them. Yikes! If New York State has any at all, I don’t know about it. (Not to say it doesn’t happen in practice, of course. But I haven’t heard of it as a legal construction.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-desantis-and-disneyland-to-me/980730.md?page=3)