# Please explain Holocaust denial **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421 "2009-09-24T21:37:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/21 "2009-09-26T06:11:39Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > It doesn’t help that in the Muslim world there isn’t a lot of info about the Holocaust shown in the media or taught at school. Everyone’s heard of it, but it’s easier to dismiss if it comes across as a rumor. It should be noted though that this doesn’t necessarily only happen in countries that (tend to) have a hatred of Jews, I’ve noticed that a lot of Japanese exchange students (for instance) know little about the Holocaust and when asked how many they thought died in it will often spout numbers in the thousands or ten thousands range (depending on what part of the country they’re from there are other things they can be similarly uninformed about that can sometimes result in shouting… but that’s another thread). So not all Holocaust “denying” or “downplaying” is necessarily out of malice. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/22 "2009-09-26T07:37:56Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > It should be noted though that this doesn’t necessarily only happen in countries that (tend to) have a hatred of Jews, I’ve noticed that a lot of Japanese exchange students (for instance) know little about the Holocaust and when asked how many they thought died in it will often spout numbers in the thousands or ten thousands range (depending on what part of the country they’re from there are other things they can be similarly uninformed about that can sometimes result in shouting… but that’s another thread). So not all Holocaust “denying” or “downplaying” is necessarily out of malice. The point is that the Holocaust is less relevent to people outside Europe and the English speaking world generally (and Israel of course). They would know less about it other than “yes Hitler, killed lots of Jews”. Japanese history of that period is probably something more relevent to them. [QUOTE=sqweels] It doesn’t help that in the Muslim world there isn’t a lot of info about the Holocaust shown in the media or taught at school. Everyone’s heard of it, but it’s easier to dismiss if it comes across as a rumor. [/QUOTE] And I take it that you are an expert in the school ciriculumn of muslim countries? Kindly don;t make such statements, without giving at least some source which not your own biased conjecture. For what its worth, I was born and raised in a muslim country and we were taught the Holocaust in great detail, it was a major project in class 8, we had to give presentations and had to see both “Escape from Sobibar” and Sophies Choice. I think the teachers loved the nature of the topic, its easy to teach, there are a few black and white things in history, this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/23 "2009-09-26T10:05:57Z")
My personal theory is that all of the WONJCTs are just anti-Semitism in a new coat. That’s the explanation for why those who buy into them are immune to reason. They want it to be true because of their prejudice so they ignore actual evidence. ---
**Author:** ![human\_extinction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@human\_extinction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/human_extinction)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/24 "2009-09-26T10:55:56Z")
[http://holocaustdenialvideos.com/](http://holocaustdenialvideos.com/) I just started researching this, but it seems I may eventually have to call myself a holocaust revisionist (DENIER!!!). Check out the evidence on this site and then write back with your great evidence for gas chambers, deliberate mass extermination, and specific death tolls for Jews and other victims at the various “death” camps. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/25 "2009-09-26T11:24:34Z")
That website’s description, long and rambling as it may be, is so horribly written that I have no choice but to discredit it out of hand. If you really want to convince us (which isn’t going to happen, but whatever,) at least give us a link to material that wasn’t written at a 6th grade level. You do not present a very positive view of your movement by linking to that shit. I’m going to be much more inclined to take someone’s argument seriously if they can write text that doesn’t look like this: > [@](#): > > Of the many terrible things about World War II, the single worst thing wasn’t the holocaust, because that’s a myth. The worst thing was German soldiers fighting Soviet soldiers because millions of young men on both sides died horrible deaths. That war was started by Hitler and, rather than the crude concept of “fighting communism,” it galvanized Stalin’s power and made void the internal workings within the USSR that might have deposed him. What are you, 12? ETA - please, please start a Great Debates thread about this, so we can debunk your ridiculous philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![human\_extinction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@human\_extinction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/human_extinction)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/26 "2009-09-26T11:34:00Z")
Wow, nice job making this into a me vs you thread. This is not “my” movement, and like I said I just started researching. Your entire reply consisted of ad hominem attacks, and a statement implying that you don’t care about evidence (“which isn’t going to happen, but whatever”). I’m not the only one in this thread who has questions, and that link was my contribution. I suggest starting with the Phil Donahue Analysis video, and critique the arguments and perspectives of the holocaust revisionists. After I found this website I did a search on this forum for “Holocaust Denial” - and I just posted in the most recent thread. I agree that this could be moved to Great Debates where a higher quality thread will probably result. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/27 "2009-09-26T11:36:02Z")
After you found the website? It says your Join Date is March 2007. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![human\_extinction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@human\_extinction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/human_extinction)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/28 "2009-09-26T11:48:15Z")
1. I find [holocaustdenialvideos.com](http://holocaustdenialvideos.com) 2. I do a bit of research 3. I am impressed 4. I search on [boards.straightdope.com](http://boards.straightdope.com) for “holocaust denial” 5. I post in this thread ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/29 "2009-09-26T13:09:54Z")
Full explaination below. [ul] [li]Some people have brains too full of pixie dust to believe that human being could _ever_ do something that cruel.[/li][li]Some people are dumb.[/li][li]Some people are bastards.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/30 "2009-09-27T02:48:00Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I think what’s behind it for people like Ahmadinejad is that he believes that the state of Israel is illegitimate, and that the “myth” of the Holocaust has been used by supporters of Israel to give it legitimacy. If the Holocaust had no connection with present-day Middle Eastern politics, he would not be interested in it, and would not regularly deny its existence. To take the Iranian Presidents argument even further, on 60 Minutes he asked “if” Germany committed a holocaust, then as an I’m Sorry why weren’t the Jews given a homeland in Germany rather than being dumped on the Arabs? His argument of course ignores a 45 year old Zionist movement at the time, that Jewish communities have existed in the Middle East for thousands of years, and that Israel is considered by many Jews to be the “promised land” given to them my God, and the history of Jews and Israel that goes back for eons. It also ignores the fact that Israel wasn’t a slice of desert just carved out of an existing Muslim territory. The Jews had to fight wars and even rebel against the British government to get their country. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/31 "2009-09-27T04:04:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > On the issue of Ahmedinejad even in the article quoted above, he dose’nt explicitly deny that the Holocaust happened, just that he has some “questions”. This is very common with conspiracy theorists: They’re “Just Asking Questions”, or, in less polite terminology, “JAQing off.” They claim that they don’t claim to know anything and are as unbiased and as impartial as the day is long. Never mind that all of their questions have unstated premises so skewed nobody can actually answer them; if they don’t get the kind of answer they want, you must be avoiding the question and that can only mean you’re … **hiding something!** **DUN DUN DUNNN!** ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/32 "2009-09-27T09:07:31Z")
> [@St.Anger](#): > > To take the Iranian Presidents argument even further, on 60 Minutes he asked “if” Germany committed a holocaust, then as an I’m Sorry why weren’t the Jews given a homeland in Germany rather than being dumped on the Arabs? > > His argument of course ignores a 45 year old Zionist movement at the time, that Jewish communities have existed in the Middle East for thousands of years, and that Israel is considered by many Jews to be the “promised land” given to them my God, and the history of Jews and Israel that goes back for eons. > > **It also ignores the fact that Israel wasn’t a slice of desert just carved out of an existing Muslim territory.** The Jews had to fight wars and even rebel against the British government to get their country. Errr actually it was, it had been part of the Ottomon empire And the majority of Jews who made up Israel were immigrents from Europe. ---
**Author:** ![doubled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@doubled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubled)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/33 "2009-09-27T13:41:40Z")
Here’s the main argument I’ve heard: “Building gas chambers to kill Jews is expensive; whereas using those Jews as slave labor and starving them to death is free. During war time, the Nazis needed slave labor on assembly lines. So even if you agree the Nazis were more evil than Satan and wanted to kill every Jew, why would they go through the extra effort of running gas chambers instead of working them to death as slave labor manufacturing supplies needed for the war? The nazis were evil but not stupid”. Supporters of the theory think once you admit that point, you’ll start to question if anything else was exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/34 "2009-09-27T14:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Errr actually it was, it had been part of the Ottomon empire Isreal was formerly a part of the Ottoman Empire. So were Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Jordan. Is anyone claiming they’re not legitimate states? ---
**Author:** ![St.Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/35 "2009-09-28T15:46:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Isreal was formerly a part of the Ottoman Empire. So were Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Jordan. Is anyone claiming they’re not legitimate states? To say that Israel was “carved” out of the sick man of Europe, the Ottoman Empire is the same as, say, taking a slice of modern day Iran and creating Israel, is a questionable comparison at best. But let’s say AK84 is correct. The fact is, his Israel was then created BEFORE the holocaust, making Ahmednijad’s oversimplification of history even more idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/36 "2009-09-29T03:36:26Z")
> [@human\_extinction](#): > > 1. I find [holocaustdenialvideos.com](http://holocaustdenialvideos.com) > 2. I do a bit of research > 3. I am impressed > 4. I search on [boards.straightdope.com](http://boards.straightdope.com) for “holocaust denial” > 5. I post in this thread You know who else follows this exact pattern? People selling you something in infomercials. “I was curious about weight loss – so I did some research, and what I found out about \ impressed me! That’s why I’ve chosen to tell YOU!” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/37 "2009-09-29T05:24:40Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And the majority of Jews who made up Israel were immigrents from Europe. No. About 52% of Israel’s Jewish population are, or are descended from Mizrahim (middle eastern Jews), Sephardim (originally Spanish Jews, but most of the Sephardim in Israel come from North Africa), or Central Asian/Caucasian Jews. Also included in that number are Ethiopian Jews. Most of these Mizrahim were, I’ll point out for the record, refugees, forced out of their ancestral homes by hostile Arab Muslim governments. Only about 48% of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazim (from Europe). ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/38 "2009-09-29T05:44:06Z")
> [@human\_extinction](#): > > Wow, nice job making this into a me vs you thread. This is not “my” movement, and like I said I just started researching. Your entire reply consisted of ad hominem attacks, and a statement implying that you don’t care about evidence (“which isn’t going to happen, but whatever”). You might as well have posted a link to a site that denies that there was slavery in the US, and said “I’ve been researching this, and I’m impressed”. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/39 "2009-09-29T05:47:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No. About 52% of Israel’s Jewish population are, or are descended from Mizrahim (middle eastern Jews), Sephardim (originally Spanish Jews, but most of the Sephardim in Israel come from North Africa), or Central Asian/Caucasian Jews. Also included in that number are Ethiopian Jews. Most of these Mizrahim were, I’ll point out for the record, refugees, forced out of their ancestral homes by hostile Arab Muslim governments. > > Only about 48% of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazim (from Europe). I presume that those figures are for Israel’s current population. I wonder what the numbers were in 1948. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421/40 "2009-09-29T06:20:11Z")
> [@Uncertain](#): > > I presume that those figures are for Israel’s current population. I wonder what the numbers were in 1948. A lower percentage were Mizrahi. The big Mizrahi immigration happened after 1948, with the first big wave being the Yemenite immigration of 1949-50 (Operation Magic Carpet/On Wings of Eagles/Messiah’s Coming…it had a bunch of code names), in which 40,000 Yemenite Jews came to Israel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-holocaust-denial/511421.md?page=3)