# Please explain how McConnell will prevent the Trial of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108 "2019-12-19T19:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/1 "2019-12-19T19:52:12Z")
Now the articles of impeachment have been passed, we have a fresh round of disinformation that SML M. McConnell will somehow stop the trial or run it in a partisan fashion. I thought we had dispensed with this ignorance but apparently it takes longer that we thought. The trial will be run by CJ John Roberts. That is in the Constitution. [The Senate Rules on Impeachment](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/SMAN-113/pdf/SMAN-113-pg223.pdf) (please read) confirm this. We have had at least two threads that went through and debated the rules and the conclusion was McConnell cannot stop or derail the trial. It is true that the Senate as a deliberative body can make the rules to run the trial but in this McConnell is 1% of the Senate So rather than just assuming that McConnell has power during the impeachment trial, why don’t all of you that are spouting this tell us _ **exactly** _ (rules, procedures, etc.) how McConnell can derail the Trial of Trump? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/2 "2019-12-19T20:00:15Z")
McConnell can direct his caucus to vote for rules that result in a sham trial. If he is successful in this, then McConnell will have prevented a real trial of impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/3 "2019-12-19T20:08:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > McConnell can direct his caucus to vote for rules that result in a sham trial. If he is successful in this, then McConnell will have prevented a real trial of impeachment. Except it takes a 2/3 vote (67 if all Senators vote) to amend the current rules I linked to. How many people are in McConnell’s caucus? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/4 "2019-12-19T20:14:44Z")
There is that quote from “Yes, Minister” Hacker: I thought these inquiries were impartial? Woolley: Minister, trains are impartial too, but lay down the tracks and that’s the way they go. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/5 "2019-12-19T20:21:13Z")
It was my understanding that the Senate can change Senate rules with simple majority vote. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/6 "2019-12-19T20:32:30Z")
MCConnell doesn’t really have to follow the rules. Who’s going to stop him? Roberts wants to do as little a possible, though he might take a stand on something particularly egregious, just so that his reputation stays more or less intact. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/7 "2019-12-19T20:41:41Z")
A couple articles about the process: > **[Analysis | What we know and don’t know about how a Senate impeachment trial...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/13/what-we-know-dont-know-about-how-senate-impeachment-trial-will-work/?arc404=true)** > > The really important things-- such as what evidence can be presented -- is up in the air. > **[Analysis | What happens next in Trump’s impeachment?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/trump-impeachment-guide/?itid=sf_the-fix)** > > The historic second impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump gets underway on Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/8 "2019-12-19T21:02:39Z")
As best I understand it, there are some rules in the “Official Rules of the Senate” (or whatever they’re called). That’s like 10-15 rules or so but vastly distant from the hundreds of minutiae that could be used to run the trial under. As example, a few Senators have explicitly stated that they will not judge in good faith. Does the presiding officer (Roberts) have any ability to deal with that? He would have to carve that power out with a very large spoon, if we were talking about the handful of official Senate rules. The minutiae could provide a clarification on that. But, go for what the Washington Post says over me. I’m paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/9 "2019-12-19T23:48:14Z")
Can the Senate just \*not \*address the issue? It’s already established that they can just \*not \*address a Supreme Court vacancy, so who’s going to make them do their jobs if they decide they don’t wanna? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/10 "2019-12-20T01:50:58Z")
The Senate can override any of Roberts’ rulings with 51 votes. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/11 "2019-12-20T02:02:18Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Now the articles of impeachment have been passed, we have a fresh round of disinformation that SML M. McConnell will somehow stop the trial or run it in a partisan fashion. The man is literally on record stating that he plans to run the trial in a partisan fashion, and he is coordinating with White House counsel on his trial strategy. It’s frankly not credible that you don’t know this. [QUOTE=Mitch McConnell] “I’m not an impartial juror,” McConnell said. “This is a political process. There is not anything judicial about it… I would anticipate we will have a largely partisan outcome in the Senate. I’m not impartial about this at all." [/quote] [QUOTE=Mitch McConnell] Everything I do during this, I will be coordinating with White House counsel,” McConnell told Fox News last week, adding that there will be “no difference between the president’s position and our position as to how to handle this.” [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/12 "2019-12-20T02:11:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The Senate can override any of Roberts’ rulings with 51 votes. That is unclear. That Roberts will preside is directly in the Constitution. What “preside” means is unclear but if they tried to set up rules that, in essence, made it impossible for Roberts to preside in any functional sense, the Democrats could take that to the Supreme Court with the argument that the Presiding role implicitly has powers to ensure that the trial is conducted fairly. Usually, the Supreme Court opts to have no opinion where the Constitution already provides a mechanism (e.g. withholding money, impeaching, etc.) and let Congress and the Executive branch or the House and the Senate to duke it out as they will. In this specific circumstance, though, I think that they would come to an opinion and vote to give the Presiding officer certain powers. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/13 "2019-12-20T02:22:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That is unclear. That Roberts will preside is directly in the Constitution. > > What “preside” means is unclear but if they tried to set up rules that, in essence, made it impossible for Roberts to preside in any functional sense, the Democrats could take that to the Supreme Court with the argument that the Presiding role implicitly has powers to ensure that the trial is conducted fairly. > > Usually, the Supreme Court opts to have no opinion where the Constitution already provides a mechanism (e.g. withholding money, impeaching, etc.) and let Congress and the Executive branch or the House and the Senate to duke it out as they will. > > In this specific circumstance, though, I think that they would come to an opinion and vote to give the Presiding officer certain powers. During Andrew Johnson’s trial the Senate repeatedly overruled CJ Chase. It cannot be taken to the Supreme Court as the Court has ruled that this is a political question. The Constitution is clear: The Senate shall have the sole power to try impeachments. To “preside” doesn’t mean or imply absolute and/or irrevocable power. The Vice President otherwise “presides” over the Senate, but he or she cannot rule with impunity. That would be a rather absurd construction of preside: to give Roberts the power to determine “fairness” in his own non-reviewable way. It would rob the Senate of its power. I think the analogy is pretty apt. The Chief Justice stands in with all of the powers, but no more, than the Vice President would have if he or she was in the chair. The Vice President is disqualified only because of his conflict of interest in that any guilty verdict means that he becomes President. Other than that, all remains the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/14 "2019-12-20T04:22:29Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > During Andrew Johnson’s trial the Senate repeatedly overruled CJ Chase. It cannot be taken to the Supreme Court as the Court has ruled that this is a political question. A brief Google does not present a supreme court case regarding Senate overruling of Chase during the impeachment of Johnson. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/15 "2019-12-20T04:44:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > A brief Google does not present a supreme court case regarding Senate overruling of Chase during the impeachment of Johnson. Cite? Sorry for the confusion. I did not mean to say that there was a Supreme Court ruling on overruling the CJ during an impeachment trial. My first point is that it was done during the impeachment of Andrew Johnson: > [@https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/17/trial-of-impeachment](#): > > The second question is the extent of the Chief Justice’s authority as presiding officer to render unilateral rulings. In the first presidential impeachment trial in 1868, Chief Justice Salmon Chase claimed the authority to decide certain procedural questions on his own, but the Senate challenged several of his rulings and overruled him at least twice. The Supreme Court furthered held 6-3 that the Senate power to try impeachments was a non-justiciable political question that the Court would never involve itself in. White and Blackmun would have held it to be justiciable (but agreed in the result) and Souter would have held it justiciable in very few circumstances such as if the Senate immediately convicted someone after taking no evidence or decided the case on a coin flip. Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993) (note, not that Nixon) Taking those two together, or even just taking the last one, if the Senate overrules Roberts, 1) precedent allows it, and 2) the Supreme Court won’t do anything to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/16 "2019-12-20T05:39:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except it takes a 2/3 vote (67 if all Senators vote) to amend the current rules I linked to. How many people are in McConnell’s caucus? This was dealt with by the invocation of the “nuclear option” which permitted a simple majority to change Senate rules. Senate Democrats led by Harry Reid invoked the nuclear option to change the Cloture rule by a simple majority vote in November 2013. Senate Republicans led by Mitch McConnell again invoked the nuclear option in April 2017 during the confirmation hearing of then-nominee to the Supreme Court Neil Gorsuch. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/17 "2019-12-20T05:40:16Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The man is literally on record stating that he plans to run the trial in a partisan fashion, and he is coordinating with White House counsel on his trial strategy. It’s frankly not credible that you don’t know this. It’s frankly not credible that you don’t know this. The Supreme Court has already ruled that impeachment is a _political_ exercise. Of course it’s going to be partisan, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/18 "2019-12-20T05:55:22Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except it takes a 2/3 vote (67 if all Senators vote) to amend the current rules I linked to. How many people are in McConnell’s caucus? Yes, if they amend the rules through formal replacement of the official text. It only takes a simple majority to adopt an interpretation of the rules that is directly contrary to the text (the nuclear option). The effect of this is exactly identical to a formal amendment. > [@UltraVires](#): > > The Senate can override any of Roberts’ rulings with 51 votes. As far as I know, Roberts doesn’t even have to make rulings. He’s free to move straight to a vote without expressing any opinion whatsoever. (I expect him to do this on all matters of any dispute whatsoever. He will be a potted plant in a robe, just like his predecessor, whose opinion of his role was “I did nothing in particular, and I did it very well.”) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/19 "2019-12-20T06:27:30Z")
All McConnell needs to do is set a standard of evidence admissibility that’s favorable to Trump. Declare that the President has the authority to rule that evidence can be withheld if its release would violate national security. Then get his fellow Republicans to agree. Trump declares all communications with Ukraine, including witness testimony, is covered by national security. Without the evidence, the impeachment managers will not be able to present any proof that Trump committed any crimes. The Republicans announce that no evidence of Trump’s guilt was presented and find him innocent of all charges. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108/20 "2019-12-20T06:30:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except it takes a 2/3 vote (67 if all Senators vote) to amend the current rules I linked to. How many people are in McConnell’s caucus? Are you sure? I’ve seen commentators saying that these are Senate rules and only require a majority vote to change them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-how-mcconnell-will-prevent-the-trial-of-trump/845108.md?page=2)