# Please Explain Some US Football Penalty Calls **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [November 30, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810 "2022-11-30T18:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/21 "2022-11-30T21:11:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It happens more with wideouts since it’s usually obvious if a lineman lines up too far forward and they will self-correct (but it has happened!). If one pays attention to the wide receivers as they line up, you’ll sometimes see them pointing to an official on the sideline, to check whether they are on the line of scrimmage or not. Apparently, sometimes, they don’t check, or they get into trouble if the offense shifts formations. > [@](#): > > The opposite issue is probably a bit more common when an OL lines up a little too far back of the line. They should be lined up on the center’s belt line but there’s a bit of leeway as long as it’s not too egregious (and the officials generally gently remind players about this sort of thing if they look like they’re repeatedly skirting close to a violation). Agreed – one particularly sees this with the offensive tackles (the linemen that are furthest away from the center), on likely passing plays. They offset themselves a bit from the actual line of scrimmage, to give themselves a smidge of a head start on backpedaling to pass block, and setting up the edges of the quarterback’s pocket. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/22 "2022-11-30T21:27:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > In the Bengals/Saints game back on Oct 16, there was an offside penalty called on a kick off, which I guess also happens from time to time. I honestly can’t decide if it happens more or less in the NFL with the change to kickoff procedure a few years ago. I feel like it’s more, but I have zero actual data. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/23 "2022-11-30T21:58:43Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I honestly can’t decide if it happens more or less in the NFL with the change to kickoff procedure a few years ago. I feel like it’s more, but I have zero actual data. I would suspect less; with the new rules on kickoffs, everyone on the kicking team (except the kicker) has to be stationary, and on or behind the line where the ball is placed, prior to the ball being kicked. The only way you would get an offsides now is if a player accidentally lined up past the line, or took off early – but as they are all standing there, and looking at the ball as it’s kicked, I don’t imagine that it happens frequently. Previously, the kicking team lined up several yards behind the line, because they were allowed to take a running start (but weren’t supposed to cross the line before the kick), and I suspect that it was easier to cross the line too early. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/24 "2022-11-30T22:14:08Z")
It was the taking off early I was thinking of, but maybe that’s an impression from the first season after the rule change. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/25 "2022-11-30T23:39:16Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > There’s no such penalty as “back field in motion;” you may be thinking of “illegal motion.” Was there a penalty called backfield in motion at one time? The Mel and Tim song **Backfield in Motion** came out in 1969. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/26 "2022-12-01T00:21:15Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Was there a penalty called backfield in motion at one time? As far as I know, it’s been “illegal motion” at least as far back as the 1970s, and possibly before. Illegal motion penalties are usually, if not always, called on players who are in the backfield, and the term “back in motion” is commonly used to describe a player who’s legally in motion; I suspect that “backfield in motion” is an intentional double-entendre. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/27 "2022-12-02T02:20:41Z")
Maybe you are thinking of this: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M0AU5Mckb3Q/hqdefault.jpg "Mel & Tim - Backfield in Motion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0AU5Mckb3Q) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/28 "2022-12-02T20:57:09Z")
Branching off the World Cup thread, when was the last time a TD was awarded for a palpably unfair act? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/29 "2022-12-02T21:23:03Z")
In the NFL? I don’t think the palpably unfair penalty has ever been called during an NFL game. For college football, there may be more recent examples, but a personal favorite involves my Rice Owls awarded a touchdown when a player came off the Alabama Bench during '54 Cotton Bowl to tackle a Rice player. He thought they would only get a 5 yard interference penalty from the spot of the tackle but the refs called for a palpably unfair act instead. This was back in the days when the idea of Rice beating Alabama would not cause immediate and uncontrollable laughter. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Sw-brk5zyx0/maxresdefault.jpg "60th Anniversary of Dicky Maegle's Cotton Bowl Run") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-brk5zyx0) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/30 "2022-12-02T21:38:50Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Branching off the World Cup thread, when was the last time a TD was awarded for a palpably unfair act? Pretty sure it has never been called in the NFL. Usually what happens is a team does something that could be called that (like the Ravens basically holding every player to run out the clock) and the next day the NFL goes “hey, next time that happens it’s going to be called an unfair act.” You can get away with it as long as you’re first. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/31 "2022-12-07T06:12:59Z")
Not someone who follows NFL, but a YouTube search brought this for “Ravens holding every player”. What is happening? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/baCeMpAZIgI/maxresdefault.jpg "Baltimore Ravens Holding Strategy on Bizarre Final Play! | Bengals vs. Ravens | NFL") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baCeMpAZIgI) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/32 "2022-12-07T13:35:21Z")
It’s 4th down for the Ravens, and they’re up by 7. If they punt the ball, there will be time left on the clock, giving the Bengals a chance to tie. So what they’re doing is holding the other team (holding is illegal) so they can burn the clock out to 0. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/33 "2022-12-07T14:26:41Z")
So a game can end on a foul? That seems, weird. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/34 "2022-12-07T14:29:15Z")
It can end on an offensive foul, but not a defensive one. It’s open to exploitation without a catch all rule like the unfair act rule. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/35 "2022-12-07T20:10:41Z")
Here’s an analysis of that exact play, and why, by the rules, it worked: > **[Can a Football Game End On a Penalty? Explained](https://www.viqtorysports.com/end-with-a-penalty/)** > > A defensive pass inference happens with no time on the clock – and the offense gets another play. An offensive holding occurs on the last play, and the game is over. Can a football game end on a penalty? Yes. If the time expires and the penalty is on... ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810/36 "2022-12-08T10:53:10Z")
If a game can’t end on any type of foul, then the offense can exploit this when fouling in an effort to complete a last second winning play. If the play fails due to the foul being called, they get another chance at a play. The game also doesn’t have provision to add time to the clock, or turn the ball over due to a penalty. So, if the penalty was accepted, we don’t accept the result of the play, so the offense still has the ball, it’s still 4th down, and there are now 0 seconds on the clock, which they can run out on the next play, ending the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-some-us-football-penalty-calls/975810.md?page=1)