# Please explain the Middle East crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487 "2006-07-21T15:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/1 "2006-07-21T15:17:52Z")
Isreal & the Hezbollah are going at it, hammer and tongs. All I know is that everyone in the Middle East seems to be mad at everyone else. Could someone please explain to me what the crisis all about, why Isreal always seems to be at the center of it, and why/how the US is (or isn’t involved), and/or why we should/shouldn’t be. That reminds me - wasn’t there an SNL skit where they asked viewers to send in the solution to the MEC in 25 words or less? I couldn’t think of any solution that short that didn’t involve the word ‘nukes’. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/2 "2006-07-21T15:24:25Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict#Historical_background) is a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/3 "2006-07-21T20:02:10Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Isreal & the Hezbollah are going at it, hammer and tongs. All I know is that everyone in the Middle East seems to be mad at everyone else. Could someone please explain to me what the crisis all about, why Isreal always seems to be at the center of it, and why/how the US is (or isn’t involved), and/or why we should/shouldn’t be. One reason the US isn’t getting more involved might be because the Bush Administration _wants_ Israel to go medieval on the folks nearby: > [@](#): > > President Bush echoed the view: “We’re going to correct the imbalances of the previous administration on the Mideast conflict. We’re going to tilt back toward Israel.” Bush continued, “If the two sides don’t want peace, there is no way we can force them.” Colin Powell said, “a pullback by the US would unleash Sharon and the Israeli army.”; Bush added, “Sometimes a show of strength by one side can really clarify things.” > > – Ron Suskind, _The Price of Loyalty,_ p. 71-72 ---
**Author:** ![dmatsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@dmatsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dmatsch)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/4 "2006-07-21T20:09:44Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Isreal & the Hezbollah are going at it, hammer and tongs. Is it just me or did I read that as “hammer and thongs” because the latter is just not right. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/5 "2006-07-21T20:11:25Z")
From [_The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,_](http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/76) by Mark Twain: > [@](#): > > Soon as I could get Buck down by the corn-cribs under the trees by ourselves, I says: > > “Did you want to kill him, Buck?” > > “Well, I bet I did.” > > “What did he do to you?” > > “Him? He never done nothing to me.” > > “Well, then, what did you want to kill him for?” > > “Why, nothing—only it’s on account of the feud.” > > “What’s a feud?” > > “Why, where was you raised? Don’t you know what a feud is?” > > “Never heard of it before—tell me about it.” > > “Well,” says Buck, “a feud is this way: A man has a quarrel with another man, and kills him; then that other man’s brother kills HIM; then the other brothers, on both sides, goes for one another; then the COUSINS chip in—and by and by everybody’s killed off, and there ain’t no more feud. But it’s kind of slow, and takes a long time.” > > “Has this one been going on long, Buck?” > > “Well, I should RECKON! It started thirty year ago, or som’ers along there. There was trouble 'bout something, and then a lawsuit to settle it; and the suit went agin one of the men, and so he up and shot the man that won the suit—which he would naturally do, of course. Anybody would.” > > “What was the trouble about, Buck?—land?” > > “I reckon maybe—I don’t know.” > > “Well, who done the shooting? Was it a Grangerford or a Shepherdson?” > > “Laws, how do I know? It was so long ago.” > > “Don’t anybody know?” > > “Oh, yes, pa knows, I reckon, and some of the other old people; but they don’t know now what the row was about in the first place.” Now, imagine a Sheperdson-Grangerford feud where **every other family in town** took sides, to the point of being ready to kill. Or, to quote a briefer Southern aphorism: “First, 'twas the Hatfields; and first, 'twas the McCoys. Or maybe 'twas the other way about.” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/6 "2006-07-21T21:03:22Z")
OK, here is my take. Asbestos suit on. Britain had conolized Palastine. There was a movement called Zionism which advocated creating a Jewish state in the biblical boundaries of Israel. A lot of European jews embraced Zionism and moved back to Palastine. Jews and Arabs lived together in some sort of peace. Nationalist Jews pushed (sometimes violently) for Britain to create a Jewish state. It became too much of a pain in the ass for Britain so they and the UN created a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. The Jews were happy for the most part (Israel was smaller than they wanted), but the Palestinians did not buy into the idea of Britain and the UN deciding their fate. They rejected the two state concept. Eventually Arabs tried to force the Jews out, but they failed miserably. As part of this a large number of Palesinians left Israel so they would not be in the firing line of the war. After the war was over the Israeli’s said tough luck, you left voluntarily. It’s been downhill since. Palestinians say WTF, how did a bunch of European Jews end up on land we lived on for several thousand years. Jews say that Israel is a legitimate country created by the UN, and if the Palestinians would stop trying to kill them then they could have their own country and everyone could live in peace. My solution: Say Zionism was a stupid idea, but now that Israel exists lets deal with it. Make Jerusalem an international city ruled by the UN. Roll back Israel’s boders to pre-1967 (more or less) and establish a Palestinian state that is massively financed with the money that we would have spent killing each other. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/7 "2006-07-21T21:16:51Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Make Jerusalem an international city ruled by the UN. Roll back Israel’s boders to pre-1967 (more or less) and establish a Palestinian state that is massively financed with the money that we would have spent killing each other. My humorous variation of this (which I have been touting for years) would be to wall off the whole place and sell it to the Disney Corporation. Everyone living there would be migrated somewhere else (I’m sure there are enough scenic spots in Europe, Australia, and North America to do the job), compensated with funds raised from ticket sales at _Disney’s Holy Adventure._😉 Alternately, get all the respective leaders together in a room, and repeatedly bang their heads together until they agree to knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/8 "2006-07-21T23:05:53Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > …Establish a Palestinian state that is massively financed with the money that we would have spent killing each other. According to the [The VJL](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/palaid.html) (an admittedly biased source): > [@](#): > > The Marshall Plan distributed $60 billion (at today’s prices), which worked out to $272 per European in the main participating countries. By contrast, by the end of last year, according to the World Bank, the Palestinians had received $4 billion since Oslo, which translates into $1,330 per Palestinian. In other words, the Palestinians have already gotten more than four times as much as the Europeans got from the Marshall Plan… Sometimes “_massively financed_” goals don’t give buyers the product they assumed they were paying for. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/9 "2006-07-22T01:54:50Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Alternately, get all the respective leaders together in a room, and repeatedly bang their heads together until they agree to knock it off. Actually, that’s another good way to model the situation. I’ll be the Israelis, you’ll be the Palestinians. We have to bang our heads against a brick wall, and whoever stops first loses. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/10 "2006-07-22T01:59:48Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > According to the [urlhttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/palaid.html]The VJL (an admittedly biased source):Sometimes “_massively financed_” goals don’t give buyers the product they assumed they were paying for. The same [source](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html) shows $37B (not in today’s dollars) in aid to Israel in the same period. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/11 "2006-07-22T02:42:50Z")
The Muslims want to kill the Jews. The Jews think they don’t deserve to be killed, so the war goes on. Well, that’s pretty much the way it looks to me … ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/12 "2006-07-22T03:08:12Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The Muslims want to kill the Jews. The Jews think they don’t deserve to be killed, so the war goes on. > > Well, that’s pretty much the way it looks to me … True, but not the whole truth. Historically, Muslims never had much interest in killing Jews until the state of Israel was founded on land they consider the eternally indefeasible territory of Dar al-Islam. Irrational – but no more so than the attitude of (some) Jews who think the land should be theirs because God promised it to Moses. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/13 "2006-07-22T03:10:42Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > The same [source](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html) shows $37B (not in today’s dollars) in aid to Israel in the same period. That might be unfair, but it doesn’t diminish the purchasing power of the much smaller aid package the Palestinians got. (Other factors, **internal** to the Palestinian community, are at least partly to blame for **that.)** ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/14 "2006-07-22T03:15:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True, but not the whole truth. Historically, Muslims never had much interest in killing Jews until the state of Israel was founded on land they consider the eternally indefeasible territory of Dar al-Islam. Irrational – but no more so than the attitude of (some) Jews who think the land should be theirs because God promised it to Moses. In much the same way that the KKK didn’t have much interest in lynching blacks - until they got ‘uppity’. As long as Jews were happy remaining occasionally-persecuted second class citizens, things were fine. But once they began asserting their rights and demanding their own homeland where they might protect themselves from future gas chambers and genocides, well, they just needed killin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/15 "2006-07-22T03:16:21Z")
Well, you see, Sauron made this ring… Oh. You were asking about the Middle _East_ crisis. Not the Middle Earth crisis. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/16 "2006-07-22T03:33:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That might be unfair, but it doesn’t diminish the purchasing power of the much smaller aid package the Palestinians got. (Other factors, **internal** to the Palestinian community, are at least partly to blame for **that.)** By that parentheses saying it was not in today’s dollars I wasn’t trying to imply that the site was showing bias, I was just too lazy to look further or do the conversion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/17 "2006-07-22T03:37:14Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > By that parentheses saying it was not in today’s dollars I wasn’t trying to imply that the site was showing bias, I was just too lazy to look further or do the conversion. No, adjustment for today’s dollars doesn’t matter, I’m sure the Israelis **did** get a lot more aid than the Palestinians – but my point was, what the Palestinians did get, largely went to waste, and at least partly because of corruption. How much of that aid wound up in Arafat’s Swiss bank accounts, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/18 "2006-07-22T03:43:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Britain had conolized Palastine. There was a movement called Zionism which advocated creating a Jewish state in the biblical boundaries of Israel. A lot of European jews embraced Zionism and moved back to Palastine. Jews and Arabs lived together in some sort of peace. Nationalist Jews pushed (sometimes violently) for Britain to create a Jewish state. It became too much of a pain in the ass for Britain so they and the UN created a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. The Jews were happy for the most part (Israel was smaller than they wanted), but the Palestinians did not buy into the idea of Britain and the UN deciding their fate. They rejected the two state concept. Eventually Arabs tried to force the Jews out, but they failed miserably. As part of this a large number of Palesinians left Israel so they would not be in the firing line of the war. After the war was over the Israeli’s said tough luck, you left voluntarily. It’s been downhill since. Palestinians say WTF, how did a bunch of European Jews end up on land we lived on for several thousand years. Jews say that Israel is a legitimate country created by the UN, and if the Palestinians would stop trying to kill them then they could have their own country and everyone could live in peace. The couple of items on this timeline are a bit off. Zionism was already an active movement seeking to establish a Jewish homeland before Britain took over Palestine. The UN didn’t really create Israel; the British decided the region was too much trouble for them to want so they left - the UN then basically recognized that the area was half full of Jews and half full of Muslims, so they split the country in half. The Muslim attack was more “immediately” rather than “eventually”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/19 "2006-07-22T03:44:28Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > In much the same way that the KKK didn’t have much interest in lynching blacks - until they got ‘uppity’. As long as Jews were happy remaining occasionally-persecuted second class citizens, things were fine. But once they began asserting their rights and demanding their own homeland where they might protect themselves from future gas chambers and genocides, well, they just needed killin’, is all. The Muslims would not have had the least little objection to that if said homeland had not been in what they considered Islamic territory. The **same** territory that had been fought over in the Crusades, and the Muslims still seem to bearing a grudge over that. (Rather petty of them, considering they **won,** but there you are.) Jews, in fact, before the 20th Century, generally fared much better in Dar al-Islam than in Christendom. They were _dhimmis,_ infidels under Islamic rule, second-class citizens; but so were Christians and Zoroastrians. There were no anti-Jewish pogroms or genocides, at any rate. Not until Israel was founded. (Mohammed did, on one occasion, massacre three Jewish tribes that had rebelled against his rule, down to the last child, but he would have treated an Arab tribe the same. It was the rule of his time and place; only way to avoid a multi-generational blood feud. Mohammed actually thought of the Jews as cousins – they were the children of Abraham through Isaac and Judaism was the right way of worship for them; Arabs were the children of Abraham through Ishmael and Islam was the right way of worship for them. So says Karen Armstrong in [Islam: A Short History.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081296618X/sr=8-8/qid=1153539777/ref=pd_bbs_8/002-9161653-5447225?ie=UTF8)) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487/20 "2006-07-22T04:39:19Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > My solution: Say Zionism was a stupid idea, but now that Israel exists lets deal with it. Make Jerusalem an international city ruled by the UN. Roll back Israel’s boders to pre-1967 (more or less) and establish a Palestinian state that is massively financed with the money that we would have spent killing each other. I think the major problem with this is the Palestinians were given a rather good shot at having the sort of state you describe already, but Arafat flat-out refused, getting hung up yet again on the right of return. As far as I can tell, none of Israel’s antagonists will ever really be content with anything short of Israel’s complete destruction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-middle-east-crisis/365487.md?page=2)