# Please explain The National Guard **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2020, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777 "2020-05-31T06:25:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/21 "2020-05-31T16:17:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Why/when does the president federalize the National Guard rather than use the regular armed forces? The Constitution explicitly empowers the federal government “calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”; while the use of the regular forces domestically is very, very strictly limited in scope by law. Under the modern incarnation thereof, in cases of a domestic federal emergency/disaster declaration the President can also authorize “Title 32” service by the National Guard in which the mobilized Guard is in service _to the state_ and under the governor’s orders, but the Pentagon foots the bill – this is for example the status of units handling CoVid. As provided in the National Guard Act, the organized units of the NG are official reserve units in the Order of Battle of the Army and Air Force (i.e. no more “(N)th (State) Regiment” a-la Civil War) and are called to federal service as such, many of them being rotated overseas periodically. > [@doreen](#): > > I’m going to take a wild guess and say it’s because the National Guard members are already located relatively close to where they are needed- most of them hold civilian jobs full-time and aren’t based at military installations. The National Guard are also given additional civil disturbance and disaster relief training that regulars do not necessarily get as much of. As mentioned the National Guard in peacetime \*are \*the State Militia so the governors of the respective states can mobilize the forces to address threats and emergencies in their state w/o need for presidential activation. Very often that is what happens, they are already called to state duty and \*then \*they get federal authorization. Within their authority to have State Militias, a number of states keep also small (because they have to pay for them out of pocket) units supernumerary to the National Guard such as the Maryland Defense Force, Texas State Guard, etc. . These are usually composed of prior service veterans and volunteers who mostly provide support services in emergencies when the National Guard units are maxed out or away on F/T duty. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/22 "2020-05-31T17:12:37Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Keep in mind they aren’t involved in law enforcement right now either; no state has actually declared martial law. They are there to (try to) keep the peace and de-escalate. They do carry weapons if needed for self defense. Important distinction here… the National Guard, when activated by the Governor, is absolutely involved in law enforcement. The Posse Comitatus act does not apply. Furthermore, troops on the street does not automatically mean martial law is in effect. Martial law is when the military is performing the executive, legislative, and judicial functions on its own. If the Governor sends tanks rolling down the street to suppress a riot, that’s still not martial law. > [@](#): > > But even the angriest rioters are going to be far more interested in fighting cops than soldiers. The soldiers would be far more professional about it, anyway. Not to burst your bubble, but many National Guard personnel are cops in their full-time jobs. So when they’re activated, they’re not just regular cops, they’re super-cops. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/23 "2020-05-31T17:59:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Why/when does the president federalize the National Guard rather than use the regular armed forces? There were several notable cases during the Civil Rights Era. In 1957, Governor Orville Faubus tried to block the [Little Rock Nine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine) from attending the Little Rock Central High School by deploying the Alabama National Guard. President Eisenhower responded by federalizing the National Guard and taking them out of Faubus’s control and basically turning them around. Another case was when Governor George Wallace of Alabama attempted to [“stand in the schoolhouse door”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_in_the_Schoolhouse_Door) to block desegregation of the University of Alabama in 1963. President Kennedy issued an executive order to federalize the Alabama National Guard to enforce desegregation. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/24 "2020-05-31T21:41:22Z")
Our local NC Army guard has the latest Apache choppers , I see them fly over a few times a month. they might be the only non Army unit with Apaches. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/25 "2020-05-31T21:46:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Not to burst your bubble, but many National Guard personnel are cops in their full-time jobs. So when they’re activated, they’re not just regular cops, they’re super-cops. You are accurate about the level of police in the National Guard being higher than in the population at large. There is nothing super about them when they put on an Army uniform. In the state where I was a Guard officer they lost legal power when activated. Police have arrest authority. My troopers and I did not. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/26 "2020-05-31T23:15:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Within their authority to have State Militias, a number of states keep also small (because they have to pay for them out of pocket) units supernumerary to the National Guard such as the Maryland Defense Force, Texas State Guard, etc. . These are usually composed of prior service veterans and volunteers who mostly provide support services in emergencies when the National Guard units are maxed out or away on F/T duty. Let’s not forget the various state naval militias (NY, OH, &c)… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/27 "2020-06-01T00:29:20Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You are accurate about the level of police in the National Guard being higher than in the population at large. There is nothing super about them when they put on an Army uniform. In the state where I was a Guard officer they lost legal power when activated. Police have arrest authority. My troopers and I did not. I was referring to the fact that a lot of these “citizen soldiers” often are really just additional police, but with military gear and command structure. In fact, one officer I served with in the NG was also police chief of my town for many years. He was recently given command of a large disaster-response task force. Also I was referencing the “supercop” routine from Beverly Hills Cop, but maybe that joke is too obscure. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/28 "2020-06-01T00:46:29Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Our local NC Army guard has the latest Apache choppers , I see them fly over a few times a month. they might be the only non Army unit with Apaches. They are in the Army because the National Guard is part of the Army. There are 4 Apache battalions spread throughout the Guard in various states. Until pretty recently there were 8. I believe they still have the AH-64D. The AH-64E is the latest model Apache. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/29 "2020-06-01T00:49:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I was referring to the fact that a lot of these “citizen soldiers” often are really just additional police, but with military gear and command structure. In fact, one officer I served with in the NG was also police chief of my town for many years. He was recently given command of a large disaster-response task force. > > Also I was referencing the “supercop” routine from Beverly Hills Cop, but maybe that joke is too obscure. Yes but DinoR is correct. Once you are under activation orders the police authority goes away and you only have the authority given to you as a soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/30 "2020-06-01T11:20:18Z")
a while back a group declared themselves to be the NC militia. Around 90% of them were officers. 🙂 The governor shut them down pretty fast. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/31 "2020-06-01T11:30:21Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You are accurate about the level of police in the National Guard being higher than in the population at large. There is nothing super about them when they put on an Army uniform. In the state where I was a Guard officer they lost legal power when activated. Police have arrest authority. My troopers and I did not. > [@Loach](#): > > Yes but DinoR is correct. Once you are under activation orders the police authority goes away and you only have the authority given to you as a soldier. These posts are right on. The National Guard doesn’t go around arresting people and they don’t investigate crimes, unless the shit _really_ hits the fan, and we’re nowhere near that kind of situation. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/32 "2020-06-01T11:47:50Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > a while back a group declared themselves to be the NC militia. Around 90% of them were officers. 🙂 The governor shut them down pretty fast. There are all sorts of weird-ass “militia” groups, usually populated by right-wing nutjobs who like to play solder in between rounds of Big Macs. They tend to be major annoyances and occasionally they are outright domestic terrorist cells, often associated with white supremacist groups. There are also officially-organized state militia units which are separate from the National Guard system. They don’t get federal funding so they are typically small and have old hand-me-down equipment. Not every state maintains these units. (And some officially do but they are in a long state of disrepair.) They are usually only called up if the National Guard unit in their state is federalized to fight in a foreign war or provide disaster relief somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/33 "2020-06-01T12:39:41Z")
Before the 1903 act that reorganized the National Guard (and eventually got them that name), they were called “Cadet Corps” or “Militia”. They were regarded as Army Reserve, but they had always been considered as a sort of Home Guard meant to deal with local emergencies and crowd control (which is why they, and not the Army, are called out in situations like this). > [@](#): > > “National Guard” became a standard nationwide militia title in 1903, and specifically indicated reserve forces under mixed state and federal control since 1933. > … > > In 1903, with passage of the Dick Act, the predecessor to the modern-day National Guard was formed. It required the states to divide their militias into two sections. The law recommended the title “National Guard” for the first section, known as the organized militia, and “Reserve Militia” for all others.[9] > **[National Guard (United States)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard)** > > The National Guard is a state-based military force that becomes part of the U.S. military's reserve components of the U.S. Army and the U.S. Air Force when activated for federal missions. It is a military reserve force composed of National Guard military members or units of each state and the territories of Guam, the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia, for a total of 54 separate organizations. It is officially created under Congress's Article 1 Section 8 ability to "rais... I was very surprised to learn that their structure and function was heavily influenced by the Great Railroad Strike of 1877 (also called The Great Uprising – as Larry Gonick observed, one of the most neglected and least-publicized major events of US History). From the Wikipedia article on this: > [@](#): > > Attempts to utilize the National Guard to quell violent outbreaks in 1877 highlighted their ineffectiveness, and in some cases their propensity to outright side with strikers and rioters. In response, as earlier riots in the mid 1800s had prompted the modernization of police forces, the violence of 1877 provided the impetus for modernizing the National Guard, “to aid the civil officers, to suppress or prevent riot or insurrections.”[28]:118[29]:30 > **[Great Railroad Strike of 1877](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Railroad_Strike_of_1877)** > > Monroe Heath > > The Great Railroad Strike of 1877, sometimes referred to as the Great Upheaval, began on July 14 in Martinsburg, West Virginia, after the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad (B&O) cut wages for the third time in a year. The Great Railroad Strike of 1877 was the first strike that spread across multiple states in the U.S. This strike finally ended 52 days later, after it was put down by unofficial militias, the National Guard, and federal troops. Because of economic problems and pressu... It came as a great revelation to me to learn that all those Armory buildings that I see in Eastern cities were strong points and storehouses for arms and ammunition to be used by the National Guard _to help quell riots_. This explains why they’re all over the place, and why they’re built with heavy walls like forts – that’s basically what they are. Nowadays, they’re part of the National Park system, or have been converted to business condos and the like. Salem (MA) Armory: [http://www.salemweb.com/history/armory/story.php](http://www.salemweb.com/history/armory/story.php) Medford MA Armory > **[Lawrence Light Guard Armory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Light_Guard_Armory)** > > The Lawrence Light Guard Armory is a historic armory building at 92 High Street in Medford, Massachusetts. The three-story granite and brick building was built in 1891 to a design by Shepley, Rutan and Coolidge. The Romanesque Revival building has massive granite quoins on the corners, a granite course between the first and second floors, and granite lintel sections above its windows. The entrance, centered on the north facade, is flanked by round turrets with crenellated tops. > The building w... ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/34 "2020-06-01T14:31:24Z")
a lot of the bogus nutjob militia groups started after Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents. Some were around before those events. Northern Idaho seems to be a favorite spot for the groups to live. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/35 "2020-06-01T14:45:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > There were several notable cases during the Civil Rights Era. In 1957, Governor Orville Faubus tried to block the [Little Rock Nine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine) from attending the Little Rock Central High School by deploying the Alabama National Guard. President Eisenhower responded by federalizing the National Guard and taking them out of Faubus’s control and basically turning them around. Another case was when Governor George Wallace of Alabama attempted to [“stand in the schoolhouse door”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_in_the_Schoolhouse_Door) to block desegregation of the University of Alabama in 1963. President Kennedy issued an executive order to federalize the Alabama National Guard to enforce desegregation. Wasn’t it the **Arkansas** National Guard (not Alabama)? I was too young when it happened, but I thought Faubus could only call up his own state’s guard. (?) On edit: I think I see what happened. Just typo/confusion regarding the later incident in 63. I know what you meant to type – sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/36 "2020-06-01T15:01:52Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Wasn’t it the **Arkansas** National Guard (not Alabama)? I was too young when it happened, but I thought Faubus could only call up his own state’s guard. (?) > > On edit: I think I see what happened. Just typo/confusion regarding the later incident in 63. I know what you meant to type – sorry. Yes, it was just a typo. Faubus of course called up the Arkansas National Guard. (Even if he could call on the Alabama Guard, it would be a long march to Little Rock.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/37 "2020-06-01T15:50:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes but DinoR is correct. Once you are under activation orders the police authority goes away and you only have the authority given to you as a soldier. Yes, I get that, my point is that they are still policemen at heart and their sympathies still lie with the police. They aren’t going to be better than the police, they aren’t going to police the police. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/38 "2020-06-01T16:32:36Z")
In a short history sense, all the colonies and early states had their own militias- citizen soldiers who would be called out in times of need. The Minutemen of the colonial era who fought at Lexington and Concord were examples. As the US formed and grew, there was a LOT of mistrust of standing armies, so there were provisions built into the Constitution and Federal Law to provide for state militias and allow for Federal mobilization of the militias if needed. This status persisted through the 19th century, with militia units providing the vast majority of combat units in the War of 1812, Mexican-American War, Civil War and Spanish-American Wars. However, problems with the system in the Spanish-American War prompted the reforms of the Militia Act of 1903, which did a number of things- classified the militia in 2 classes- unorganized militia, which was all men between 17 and 45, and the organized militia, which were the various state militias. The organized militia was then funded and organized by the Federal government, in return for greater control by the Feds, including integration into the Federal military. Most National Guard units are part of larger Army/Air Force units- for example, the 42nd Infantry Division is composed of National Guard units from 14 states, with NY chief among them. Similarly, the 35th Infantry Division was composed of Kansas and Missouri National Guard units in WWI, and the 36th Infantry was composed of Texas and Oklahoma units in WWI and WWII, and is currently composed of Texas, Mississippi and Lousiana units, as well as a regular Army brigade combat team. So today, we have the National Guard, which is basically the old state militias, but organized and funded primarily as reserve component units of the Federal military. In peacetime, they’re under the command of the various state governors- that’s why you see them deployed for natural disasters, rioting, etc… and in time of war, they get “federalized” and officially become part of the Federal military. This is what happened in Little Rock- the Arkansas governor deployed the AR National Guard as governor to prevent the integration of Central High, then President Eisenhower federalized them and issued opposite orders to support the integration of Central High. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/39 "2020-06-01T16:45:50Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Guard has a duel mission… Was that intentional, or a Freudian slip? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777/40 "2020-06-03T17:44:59Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yes, I get that, my point is that they are still policemen at heart and their sympathies still lie with the police. They aren’t going to be better than the police, they aren’t going to police the police. Do you have some sort of cite for this, or is this completely baseless slander? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-the-national-guard/854777.md?page=3)