# Please explain this Mormon (?) terminology from "Big Love" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750 "2006-05-22T14:31:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/1 "2006-05-22T14:31:52Z")
The HBO series _Big Love_ is about a polygamous family from a Mormon splinter group, schismatic from the LDS Church, which still practicies polygamy. Apparently it’s based on the FLDS – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist\_Church\_of\_Jesus\_Christ\_of\_Latter\_Day\_Saints](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints). But I would suppose the traditions, doctrines and terminology are fundamentally similar. They use some terms the meaning of which is unclear to me: 1. What is “the Principle”? 2. What is a “Journey”? 3. What is “Eternity” and “Time”? Is “Eternity” just another way of saying “Heaven” or “the afterlife,” or do Mormons have some fundamentally different conception of the afterlife as being something outside of time the way Spaceland is outside of Flatland? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/2 "2006-05-22T14:58:22Z")
\*Disclaimer: The sect portrayed in Big Love _is not Mormon_. That being said, “the Principle” is multiple marriage; i.e., having more than one wife at the same time. In [Section 132 of the Doctrine & Covenants](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132), there is a distinction made between _time_ and _eternity_. Essentially, time is this life and eternity includes this life and the afterlife. “The Journey” is a new one on me. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/3 "2006-05-22T16:31:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > “The Journey” is a new one on me. Would this be the _journey of life_ here into eternity? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/4 "2006-05-22T19:56:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > \*Disclaimer: The sect portrayed in Big Love _is not Mormon_ They’re not? What are they supposed to be then? I thought what the OP did, that they were a splinter group of Mormon’s that were not recognized by, I guess you’d say, “more traditional Mormons.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/5 "2006-05-22T20:11:55Z")
I thought that they were Mormons but most definitely not LDS. At the very least they consider themselves Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/6 "2006-05-22T20:12:47Z")
The term “Mormon” is properly applied only to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the [official website](http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html) of the LDS church: > [@](#): > > There Is No Such Thing as a “Mormon Fundamentalist” or “Mormon Sect” > The term “Mormon” is a nickname commonly applied to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is no such thing as a “Mormon fundamentalist,” nor are there “Mormon sects." A correct term to describe these polygamist groups is “polygamist sects.” The inclusion of the word “Mormon” is misleading and inaccurate. > > The Associated Press Stylebook states, “The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other Latter Day Saints churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith’s death.” ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/7 "2006-05-22T20:15:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > \*Disclaimer: The sect portrayed in Big Love _is not Mormon_. Sure it is. The word “Mormon” can refer to any or all of the churches using the _Book of Mormon_ as scripture. What you probably mean to say is that the sect isn’t formally affiliated with the largest Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But the OP already said as much. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/8 "2006-05-22T20:17:48Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > The term “Mormon” is properly applied only to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the [official website](http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html) of the LDS church… If you take the LDS church as the final and supreme arbiter on the semantics of the English language, yes. But most people don’t. Common usage determines the meaning of words, and the use of “Mormon” to mean adherents of any offshoot of Joseph Smith’s religion is pretty well-established. ---
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/9 "2006-05-22T20:18:20Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I thought that they were Mormons but most definitely not LDS. At the very least they consider themselves Mormons. Read John Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” if you want to learn about Mormonism. There are fundamentalist mormons who claim to be strictly following the principals of the founder Joseph Smith. There are few of these left as they have and continue to be persecuted for their unorthodox beliefs. The Church of LDS is a more modern version of Mormonism that does not espouse polygamy. They are all Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/10 "2006-05-22T20:41:11Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > The term “Mormon” is properly applied only to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the [official website](http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html) of the LDS church: So? The Catholic Church could (and, for a long time, did, IIRC) declare officially that the word “Christian” applies only to Catholics.\* That would not make it so. \*Just as, among U.S. Protestants, “Papist” once was used as an antonym for “Christian.” ---
**Author:** ![ChipsNDip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@ChipsNDip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChipsNDip)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/11 "2006-05-22T20:50:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So? The Catholic Church could (and, for a long time, did, IIRC) declare officially that the word “Christian” applies only to Catholics.\* That would not make it so. > \*Just as, among U.S. Protestants, “Papist” once was used as an antonym for “Christian.” AND many Mormons would call themselves Christians, where many Catholic or Protestant denominations would consider the LDS church and it’s offshoots as outside of Christian orthodoxy. But then again, the LDS church would consider Catholicism and Protestantism outside of Christian orthodoxy… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/12 "2006-05-22T22:50:02Z")
It’s worth pointing out the on the show, The Compound people are loosely based on the FLDS, but Bill’s family is not part of any organized group. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/13 "2006-05-22T22:59:08Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It’s worth pointing out the on the show, The Compound people are loosely based on the FLDS, but Bill’s family is not part of any organized group. Well, Bill is kind of a lapsed/exiled member, but he was raised in the Compound and his relatives are there. He would never have considered plural marriage otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/14 "2006-05-22T23:18:13Z")
In the real world, there are lots of “independant” Mormon polygamists which are not LDS (obviously) and not part of any other organized church. That’s what Bill is supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/15 "2006-05-23T02:16:46Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > If you take the LDS church as the final and supreme arbiter on the semantics of the English language, yes. But most people don’t. Common usage determines the meaning of words, and the use of “Mormon” to mean adherents of any offshoot of Joseph Smith’s religion is pretty well-established. Really now? I’d think that if your assertion were the case then it would be reflected in, perhaps, [this dictionary entry](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Mormon). Said entry certainly seems to support the LDS view of the usage of the word in question. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/16 "2006-05-23T02:24:02Z")
> [@ChipsNDip](#): > > AND many Mormons would call themselves Christians, where many Catholic or Protestant denominations would consider the LDS church and it’s offshoots as outside of Christian orthodoxy. But then again, the LDS church would consider Catholicism and Protestantism outside of Christian orthodoxy… 😉 All members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints call themselves Christians. Not only is Jesus the central aspect of our worship, we covenant every time we take the Sacrament to “take upon [ourselves]” His name. Check out the [Sacrament prayer](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/20) for the bread: > [@](#): > > [sup]77[/sup]O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his ccommandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen. We have no problem being considered outside of traditional Christianity as we believe that our brand of Christianity is a restoration of the original church. Whether we are correct or not on that assertion has no bearing on the simple fact that we worship Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/17 "2006-05-23T02:32:09Z")
p.s. ChipsNDip, I was just stipulating in Post #16 what I understand my church’s teaching to be. Quoting your post was just a more convenient way for me to do it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/18 "2006-05-23T02:53:28Z")
I home you excuse my saying so, **Monty** but s aggravating as it may be for y’all, it’s bound to be about as succesful in getting people to use the institutional terminology properly, who are _outside_ the institution, as it is to make them start saying “hook and pile fastener” instead of “Velcro”. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/19 "2006-05-23T03:05:19Z")
I’m a pretty big proponant of the “people are what they say they are” school. Do the people in question call themselves Mormon? I’ve met at least one person from an LDS-offshoot church who said she was a Latter Day Saint (belongong as she did to the “Reconstituted Church of Latter-Day Saints,” or some such), but not a Mormon. If the people in question don’t call themselves Mormon, and the people who call themselves Mormon don’t consider them Mormon, then I’d say **Monty** s got a pretty strong case that they ain’t Mormon! ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750/20 "2006-05-23T03:47:32Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > The term “Mormon” is properly applied only to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the [official website](http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html) of the LDS church: Given the history of the LDS church, one may assume they are more than a bit sensitive on this point and that they may protest too much as to practices that were part and parcel of the Smith/Young days (not just polygamy, “blood atonement” and the characteristics necessary to be a member of the priesthood) are ideas that have been renounced or substantially changed in the past ~100 years and that are or may be held by various sects who certainly believe themselves to be the lineal heirs of Jos. Smith/B.Y. and thus of the “Mormon”/LDS tag. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-this-mormon-terminology-from-big-love/357750.md?page=2)