# Please explain to me why Roman Polanski isn't a bad guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126 "2014-10-31T15:14:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/141 "2014-11-03T08:05:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What? Have you not been paying attention – it wasn’t just statutory rape. She didn’t consent, and in fact said no several times. This wasn’t just a case of an older man sleeping with an underage girl. I thought I shouldn’t have used “statutory”. That was to shorten my sentence. I meant sex with minors in general. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/142 "2014-11-03T08:37:45Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > A prosecution wouldn’t have required it. Or required anything really besides a prosecutor aware of the case and willing to prosecute it. But a _successful_ prosecution would certainly have required the cooperation of either the American authorities or the victim, and probably both. Yes, you’re correct. I should’ve said a successful prosecution. > [@](#): > > However, there’s no “pursuing extradition instead”. The extradition of a French citizen is right off the table. French law doesn’t allow it (except recently for some crimes with some European countries, but that’s a novelty). American authorities have requested extradition from other countries, but not from France. The options were having him tried in France or not tried at all. I meant, of course, pursuing his extradition in countries he may find himself and which would actually extradite him. Of course, France’s stance isn’t what the authorities back in the US wish to agree with. > [@](#): > > It’s possible that they deliberatly didn’t request him to be prosecuted in France because they prefered the trial to take place in the US and thought at the time that they would eventually get him someday, I wouldn’t know. Or maybe they didn’t care enough about the case. This is very possible, since statutory rape wasn’t as much of a big deal at the time as it is now. Or maybe they thought/were told that France wouldn’t bother prosecute him and so didn’t even try. No clue. IIRC, there have been a few cases where the authorities in one country refuse to assist with a fugitive’s prosecution in a second country even when the penalty in the second country is quite likely to be more severe than in the first. National pride, designated as “sovereignty”, seems to be the usual reason proffered for that. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/143 "2014-11-03T12:39:53Z")
Canada will not permit a person to be extradited if the penalty would contravene [section 7 of our Constitution Act’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11/latest/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11.html#sec7_smooth) by violating fundamental justice. That’s why we don’t ship off people who could be facing torture or [death](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2001/2001scc7/2001scc7.html). > [@](#): > > 1. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. When the USA undertakes to ensure fundamental justice, then extradition takes place. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/144 "2014-11-03T14:03:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > ZP, unless I misremember, haven’t you spoken fervently and at length on how it’s wrong for men to offer to shake hands with women and doing so is tantamount to sexual assault? > > I don’t bring this up as an attack, but it seems bizarre to argue that there’s nothing wrong with a grown man anally penetrating a drugged 13 year old girl without her consent but offering to shake hands with her would be crossing the line. > > Could you explain your reasoning please? We only have her word for it that she did not consent. According to Polanski she did consent. Furthermore her actions prior to the alleged rape give me plenty of reason to believe it is more likely she did consent. She went alone to a nude photo shoot, in 1970’s LA where trading sex for movie opportunities was an incredibly common occurrence. Nor was she or her mother inexperienced with how the system worked. Both were aspiring actresses. If she were really concerned about Polanski trying anything, she would have brought along either her mother or another adult. They would have had her medically examined after the alleged rape. The entire setup looks like she went there with no purpose other than trapping Polanski with sex. Now whether this plan was completely the mothers or the daughters or more likely a collusion between them both is up for debate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/145 "2014-11-03T14:09:18Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > We only have her word for it that she did not consent. False – Polanski [flat out admits](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/roman-polanski/8793470/Roman-Polanski-fugitive-director-admits-rape-woman-double-victim.html) she was his victim. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/146 "2014-11-03T14:33:45Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Canada will not permit a person to be extradited if the penalty would contravene [section 7 of our Constitution Act’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11/latest/schedule-b-to-the-canada-act-1982-uk-1982-c-11.html#sec7_smooth) by violating fundamental justice. That’s why we don’t ship off people who could be facing torture or [death](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2001/2001scc7/2001scc7.html). > > When the USA undertakes to ensure fundamental justice, then extradition takes place. Hasn’t Canada extradited someone to the US to face a possible death penalty in fairly recent memory? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/147 "2014-11-03T14:44:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > False – Polanski [flat out admits](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/roman-polanski/8793470/Roman-Polanski-fugitive-director-admits-rape-woman-double-victim.html) she was his victim. More like Polanski wants to get on with his life too and is willing to try the public grovel it he thinks it will get people to shut up and stop dwelling on this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/148 "2014-11-03T14:50:23Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > More like Polanski wants to get on with his life too and is willing to try the public grovel it he thinks it will get people to shut up and stop dwelling on this. No, this is far, far less likely. It’s baffling why anyone would try to twist themselves into knots to try to defend a man who admits he sexually victimized a 13 year old girl. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/149 "2014-11-03T14:51:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hasn’t Canada extradited someone to the US to face a possible death penalty in fairly recent memory? No. Check out the “death” link. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/150 "2014-11-03T15:02:03Z")
In short, the SCC in Burns 2001 changed the law that it had previously made Kindler 1991 and Ng 1991. The linked Burns decision includes links to Kindler and Ng. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/151 "2014-11-03T22:53:31Z")
nm. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/152 "2014-11-04T03:36:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, this is far, far less likely. It’s baffling why anyone would try to twist themselves into knots to try to defend a man who admits he sexually victimized a 13 year old girl. True, but he didn’t try to shake her hand. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/153 "2014-11-04T03:39:47Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > We only have her word for it that she did not consent. According to Polanski she did consent. Furthermore her actions prior to the alleged rape give me plenty of reason to believe it is more likely she did consent. She went alone to a nude photo shoot, in 1970’s LA where trading sex for movie opportunities was an incredibly common occurrence. Nor was she or her mother inexperienced with how the system worked. Both were aspiring actresses. If she were really concerned about Polanski trying anything, she would have brought along either her mother or another adult. They would have had her medically examined after the alleged rape. The entire setup looks like she went there with no purpose other than trapping Polanski with sex. Now whether this plan was completely the mothers or the daughters or more likely a collusion between them both is up for debate. That’s nice, but you still haven’t explained why you have no problem with him anally penetrating an intoxicated 13-year-old but you would have a problem with him offering to shake her hand. Could you please explain that. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/154 "2014-11-04T03:48:56Z")
Dude the guy survived the Holocaust, give him a break! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/155 "2014-11-04T07:09:34Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > clairobscur writes: > > \> He’s a French citizen and France doesn’t extradite her citizens. > > I just checked a bunch of websites and found that, although France doesn’t extradite anyone to another country if they are a French citizen, they will consider trying them in French courts for the crime that they are accused of. Heck, you should have just searched the SDMB: [Why didn’t France extradite Polanski years ago?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536653) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/156 "2014-11-04T11:06:16Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Dude the guy survived the Holocaust, give him a break! Stopped clocks, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/157 "2014-11-04T12:14:26Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Dude the guy survived the Holocaust, give him a break! That break doesn’t include putting up with the rape of 13 year old girls. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/158 "2014-11-05T14:01:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s nice, but you still haven’t explained why you have no problem with him anally penetrating an intoxicated 13-year-old but you would have a problem with him offering to shake her hand. > > Could you please explain that. > > Thanks in advance. It’s all about consent. Sticking a hand out at woman trying to publically coerce her into touching you is wrong, really wrong. It’s an act of publically trying to compromise and disgrace her. If she consents to that behavior, different story. If the 13-year consents to be anally penetrated, then the matter is between her and the person that penetrates. So far, the alleged victims actions don’t indicate to me that she had a problem with what Polanski did to her other than perhaps it didn’t get her and her mother the financial and professional rewards they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/159 "2014-11-05T14:05:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, this is far, far less likely. It’s baffling why anyone would try to twist themselves into knots to try to defend a man who admits he sexually victimized a 13 year old girl. I don’t consider consensual sex victimization and I think statutory rape laws are ridiculous, especially in cases like this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126/160 "2014-11-05T14:08:35Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I don’t consider consensual sex victimization and I think statutory rape laws are ridiculous, especially in cases like this. She says it wasn’t consensual, and he says she was his victim. Considering how differently people can react to rape and assault, I see nothing in her behavior afterwards that suggests that her testimony was false. I also believe that, morally, an adult male who would be willing to have sex with a 13 year old girl is also probably willing to have non-consensual sex with a 13 year old girl. So we have her testimony, and we have Polanski stating (finally!) that she was his victim. That’s more than good enough for me to conclude that it’s much more likely than not that the sex was not consensual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-roman-polanski-isnt-a-bad-guy/703126.md?page=9)