# Please explain to me why this Trump/Ukraine thing is a big deal **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 22, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633 "2019-09-22T00:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/101 "2019-09-24T20:30:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Jake Sherman, Politico: > > [https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1176581805283184640?s=20](https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1176581805283184640?s=20) > > “Hotlining” is bypassing usual Senate rules. Here’s a definition: > > [Twelve Stories: How Democracy Works Now | Glossary](http://www.howdemocracyworksnow.com/glossary/hotline) > > So: > > 1. MoscowMitch is moving soon as to make sure the Repubs don’t break on this and he can get this voted down, or… > 2. MoscowMitch is beginning the dance of separation > > Time will tell… [Passed](https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1176581805283184640) unanimously. The GOP is running? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/102 "2019-09-24T20:37:51Z")
? You linked to the Jake Sherman tweet I linked to. Did you mean to link somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/103 "2019-09-24T20:38:38Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/104 "2019-09-24T20:40:56Z")
Wow. It’s a non-binding resolution, but it’s something. And, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/105 "2019-09-24T20:42:51Z")
Also, this: > ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/106 "2019-09-24T21:58:09Z")
At the very least, Rudy should be disbarred. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/107 "2019-09-24T22:05:42Z")
Here’s a fairly concise summary from NPR. > **[What Were The Bidens Doing In Ukraine? 5 Questions Answered](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/24/763502822/what-were-the-bidens-doing-in-ukraine-5-questions-answered)** > > President Trump asked Ukraine's president to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The Bidens call a smear campaign that has been debunked. Here's the backstory. I keep thinking about the whole Bill Browder/ Russia / Magnisky situation as I follow this story. I read Browder’s book before Trump was ever a serious presidential candidate, and Ive also read a lot of other material about corruption in the former USSR countries. Browder was an American businessman doing business in Russia He and his companies were defrauded framed for a serious financial crime in a brazen and far-ranging plot that resulted in him losing all his investment in Russia. His local lawyer, Serge Magnitsky, was murdered in a Russian prison after being arrested on false charges. There were lots of corrupt prosecutors and government official among the people sanctioned by the Magnitsky Act. I was outraged, when, in a press conference with Putin, Trump indicated that he might be willing to extradite Browder. And I’m outraged that Trump seems to be trying to engineer a similar plot against an American citizen, someone that he is supposed to be protecting and serving. I don’t understand how anyone can be so blinded by partisan hate to equate a plan to have a private citizen persecuted by a notoriously corrupt government with justice and fairness. They probably are the same people that think that forming a joint task force with Russia to investigate election interference would be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/108 "2019-09-24T22:09:31Z")
A long, factual piece by Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) on [JustSecurity](https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/) laying out a detailed timeline of the Ukraine story. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/109 "2019-09-24T23:56:03Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Passed](https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1176581805283184640) unanimously. The GOP is running? Blood in the water. They smell it. If it goes away, they’ll go back into ‘Protect Trump at all costs’ mode. But if Trump makes this worse for himself (and there’s always that possibility), they may be willing to deep-six him. A lot depends on the major donors. If enough of them quietly let on that they’ll support the Republican incumbents against Trumpian primary challengers, then those Republicans will act against Trump. It’s a slim chance. But not impossible. (And yes: in the event, Trump will be re-defined as a Democrat, faster than you can say “money talks, integrity walks.”) > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > … I don’t understand how anyone can be so blinded by partisan hate to equate a plan to have a private citizen persecuted by a notoriously corrupt government with justice and fairness. They probably are the same people that think that forming a joint task force with Russia to investigate election interference would be a good idea. All that matters is winning. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/110 "2019-09-25T00:37:15Z")
Trump called Nancy Pelosi and… like a mob boss… asked her if they could “work something out”. No wonder the dominos fell this morning. > ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/111 "2019-09-25T00:37:28Z")
It’s clear what Trump’s strategy is with Biden, which is to make him the 2020 version of Hillary Clinton. I am in the camp that says the Democrats have no choice but to start an impeachment inquiry now, given the gross abuse of power. But the realist in me also sees how attention to this matter in particular could poison Biden’s candidacy. Remember, folks, Trump’s line of attacks against Biden need not be representative of the facts as a whole; he just needs a kernel of truth to work with. The GOP and Trump managed to take Hillary Clinton’s proximity to crime, proximity to bad people, and proximity to just bad luck, and they were able to weave a tapestry of lies and spin that sunk her candidacy. Biden’s in the same position, and the Trump team sees that: they want to use the proximity to something dark and create confusion in the minds of voters. Trump didn’t beat Hillary because he was necessarily more popular; in fact he was less so. But he was able to convince enough people that Hillary was almost as evil as he was, and that kept people who would have supported Hillary away from the polls while Trump’s energized voters showed up. That’s the end game with Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/112 "2019-09-25T00:38:22Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > At the very least, Rudy should be disbarred. That would be the _very_ least, wouldn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/113 "2019-09-25T06:39:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Trump called Nancy Pelosi and… like a mob boss… asked her if they could “work something out”. > > No wonder the dominos fell this morning. > > [https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1176631193279913985?s=19](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1176631193279913985?s=19) For more on this … [https://twitter.com/KoriWasinger/status/1176649847824355334](https://twitter.com/KoriWasinger/status/1176649847824355334) But wait! There’s more: [Transcript Reveals Pence Knew About And Participated In Trump's Apparent Ukraine Extortion Plot · DC Tribune](http://dctribune.org/transcript-reveals-pence-knew-about-and-participated-in-trumps-apparent-ukraine-extortion-plot/) > It’s important to laugh as much as one can. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/114 "2019-09-25T07:00:24Z")
Huh. Is it too late for Trump to pull an Agnew-Ford switcheroo? I hope it is. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/115 "2019-09-25T08:05:24Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > At the very least, Rudy should be disbarred. I’m an opponent of capital punishment always and everywhere (and I do NOT exclude any executions that have been carried out throughout all of recorded history\*), but the idea of Barr being disbarred carries a certain visceral appeal… \*(or Scripture) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/116 "2019-09-25T12:30:41Z")
I have my answer (IMO, this was a clear enough deed that voters, and not just politics junkies, would see the problem), so I may not return to this thread. If a mod wanted to shut this down, like all the rest of the pre-impeachment-inquiry threads, I would not object. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/117 "2019-09-25T13:13:25Z")
That’s fair. I’ll refrain from commenting further here and we can let it die the True Death w/o it being locked. Great topic! ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/118 "2019-09-25T13:32:36Z")
> [@mjmlabs](#): > > But wait! There’s more: [Transcript Reveals Pence Knew About And Participated In Trump's Apparent Ukraine Extortion Plot · DC Tribune](http://dctribune.org/transcript-reveals-pence-knew-about-and-participated-in-trumps-apparent-ukraine-extortion-plot/) From this link: > [@](#): > > “I mean, to invest additional taxpayer in Ukraine, the President wants to be assured that those resources are truly making their way to the kind of investments that will contribute to security and stability in Ukraine. And that’s an expectation the American people have and the President has expressed very clearly.” > > This is proof positive of Pence admitting to precisely the same thing as Donald and Guiliani admitted to. I disagree that this is proof positive of Pence admitting that. The quote in and of itself is actually reasonable. I am worried that since this did happen, it will be used as a way to distract from the actual thing Giuliani admitted to as far as asking Ukraine to look up dirt on Biden. They will point to it and say, “see the president was just looking out for the American people, to ensure their tax dollars are being spent wisely.” It’s almost like they planned this from the start. This is their game plan. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/119 "2019-09-25T13:54:18Z")
My guess is that the deep state hacks are furious that their clients in Ukraine aren’t getting their military aid. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/120 "2019-09-25T13:59:47Z")
That’s odd- I thought the deep state ran everything and got whatever they wanted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633.md?page=7)