# Please explain to me why this Trump/Ukraine thing is a big deal **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 22, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633 "2019-09-22T00:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/121 "2019-09-25T14:17:31Z")
That’s an odd thing to think. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/122 "2019-09-25T14:20:44Z")
Why? What are you hearing? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/123 "2019-09-25T14:41:44Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My guess is that the deep state hacks are furious that their clients in Ukraine aren’t getting their military aid. You mean the “deep state hacks” in Congress who voted to give military aid to Ukraine? That “deep state”? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/124 "2019-09-25T15:10:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You mean the “deep state hacks” in Congress who voted to give military aid to Ukraine? > > That “deep state”? No. The deep state hacks who think we are still in the Cold War and are all of a sudden conscientious “whistleblowers”. The critters are probs mad too though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/125 "2019-09-25T15:20:14Z")
Would y’all like to [read the transcript for yourselves?](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/transcript-of-trumps-call-with-ukrainian-president-shows-him-offering-us-assistance-for-biden-investigation/ar-AAHPBoK?ocid=spartanntp) If Trump thinks releasing this will exonerate him he is delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/126 "2019-09-25T15:39:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would y’all like to [read the transcript for yourselves?](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/transcript-of-trumps-call-with-ukrainian-president-shows-him-offering-us-assistance-for-biden-investigation/ar-AAHPBoK?ocid=spartanntp) > If Trump thinks releasing this will exonerate him he is delusional. Wow, that sure looks bad. Although, as bad as it looks for Trump I think it looks even worse for Zelensky. He obviously figured out that fawning obsequiousness is the best way to get Trump to do what you want, but I doubt its going to go over too well with his people. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/127 "2019-09-25T15:43:37Z")
My last post here as the OP requested this one ends, but please stop calling it a “transcript” when the official document calls itself a “memorandum of a telephone conversation” and _literally has a disclaimer saying that the document “is not a verbatim transcript”_. Thank you. > ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/128 "2019-09-25T15:53:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My last post here as the OP requested this one ends, but please stop calling it a “transcript” when the official document calls itself a “memorandum of a telephone conversation” and _literally has a disclaimer saying that the document “is not a verbatim transcript”_. > > Thank you. > > [https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1176878097079185408?s=20](https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1176878097079185408?s=20) As bad as this memo already sounds, think how bad the actual transcript is? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/129 "2019-09-25T15:54:31Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > My guess is that the deep state hacks are furious that their clients in Ukraine aren’t getting their military aid. WillFarnaby, you have been previously instructed to not include your hobby horses in unrelated threads. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21736908&postcount=21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21736908&postcount=21) > [@](#): > > This is fair notice to you. I’m done with you interjecting your pet topic of statism or authoritarianism or the combination in unrelated threads, as well as passive aggressive denigrating the board. This goes for this thread, and all other threads in GD and Elections. I am bookmarking this post and If you do this again, you will be warned. The quoted post certainly counts and, indeed, inspired a bit of a sidetracking of the thread. Warning issued. We’re serious about this. Don’t do so again. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/130 "2019-09-25T16:11:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Wow, that sure looks bad. Although, as bad as it looks for Trump I think it looks even worse for Zelensky. He obviously figured out that fawning obsequiousness is the best way to get Trump to do what you want, but I doubt its going to go over too well with his people. I’m guessing his sitcom, in which he merely \*played \*the Ukrainian President, wasn’t nearly as absurd as reality has proven to be. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/131 "2019-09-26T02:44:23Z")
From this link: [Transcript Reveals Pence Knew About And Participated In Trump's Apparent Ukraine Extortion Plot · DC Tribune](http://dctribune.org/transcript-reveals-pence-knew-about-and-participated-in-trumps-apparent-ukraine-extortion-plot/) > [@](#): > > “I mean, to invest additional taxpayer in Ukraine, the President wants to be assured that those resources are truly making their way to the kind of investments that will contribute to security and stability in Ukraine. And that’s an expectation the American people have and the President has expressed very clearly.” > > This is proof positive of Pence admitting to precisely the same thing as Donald and Guiliani admitted to. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I disagree that this is proof positive of Pence admitting that. The quote in and of itself is actually reasonable. I am worried that since this did happen, it will be used as a way to distract from the actual thing Giuliani admitted to as far as asking Ukraine to look up dirt on Biden. They will point to it and say, “see the president was just looking out for the American people, to ensure their tax dollars are being spent wisely.” It’s almost like they planned this from the start. > > This is their game plan. I don’t disagree. Perhaps we can counter that with a bit more context [emphases in the below mine]: > [@](#): > > **Pence stated that he and Ukraine President Zelensky “discussed America’s support for Ukraine and the upcoming decision the President will make on the latest tranche of financial support in great detail.”** > > It is worth noting here that Trump pulled a staggering $250 million in military aid to Ukraine around this time before immediately releasing it a single day later, as soon as the House caught on and penned a letter in which they stated that they would be opening an investigation into the sudden withholding of funds. > > “ **But as President Trump had me make clear, we have great concerns about issues of corruption.** ” > > Note here that, **as far as could be determined by ours and other media outlets, this is the first time that Donald has ever mentioned corruption in a foreign country up until news of this scandal broke**. > > “I mean, to invest additional taxpayer in Ukraine, the President wants to be assured that those resources are truly making their way to the kind of investments that will contribute to security and stability in Ukraine. And that’s an expectation the American people have and the President has expressed very clearly.” > > This is proof positive of Pence admitting to precisely the same thing as Donald and Guiliani admitted to. Remember how “adoptions from Russia” were code for “rescinding the Magnitsky Act” (which had led Russia to curtail American adoptions of Russian children)? Same tactic. Pence set up the “corruption = H. Biden smears” code before Trump’s call, just to make sure Zelenskiy knew how to plat ball. At least that’s what I’ve heard. Many people are saying that. And I think when it all comes out you’ll be very surprised; lotta things, some very bad things that, frankly, nobody ever thought they’d see. It’s a disgrace. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/132 "2019-09-26T12:06:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’m guessing his sitcom, in which he merely \*played \*the Ukrainian President, wasn’t nearly as absurd as reality has proven to be. In Ukraine, President plays YOU! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/133 "2019-09-26T13:08:48Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Wow, that sure looks bad. Although, as bad as it looks for Trump I think it looks even worse for Zelensky. He obviously figured out that fawning obsequiousness is the best way to get Trump to do what you want, but I doubt its going to go over too well with his people. I’m not seeing the fawning by Zelensky: > [@](#): > > Trump continued to insist he did nothing wrong, and Zelensky, seated beside him during an awkward joint appearance at the United Nations in New York, described their July phone call as “normal,” saying, “I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be involved to democratic open elections of U.S.A.” The guy is almost literally between a rock and hard place with Russia on one side and Trump on the other. He needs the money and the military equipment. He is bewildered by Trumps mob style diplomacy, ‘Nice country you have there President Zelensky. Shame if something were to happen to it.’ He’s inexperienced and probably not up to the job. But is he fawning? I don’t see it. If anything, he’s shining Trump on. It’s the classic tactic you would use when dealing with a high conflict personality like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/134 "2019-09-26T13:12:31Z")
I really get a kick out of the idea that Trump was merely fighting corruption. Trump, super hero, No Corruption Man. Don’t bother with involving American intelligence outfits and law enforcement, instead have the Ukrainians look into things and report back! ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/135 "2019-09-26T13:27:32Z")
> [@mjmlabs](#): > > From this link: [Transcript Reveals Pence Knew About And Participated In Trump's Apparent Ukraine Extortion Plot · DC Tribune](http://dctribune.org/transcript-reveals-pence-knew-about-and-participated-in-trumps-apparent-ukraine-extortion-plot/) > > I don’t disagree. Perhaps we can counter that with a bit more context [emphases in the below mine]: > Remember how “adoptions from Russia” were code for “rescinding the Magnitsky Act” (which had led Russia to curtail American adoptions of Russian children)? Same tactic. Pence set up the “corruption = H. Biden smears” code before Trump’s call, just to make sure Zelenskiy knew how to plat ball. > > At least that’s what I’ve heard. Many people are saying that. And I think when it all comes out you’ll be very surprised; lotta things, some very bad things that, frankly, nobody ever thought they’d see. It’s a disgrace. :rolleyes: “Many people are saying that.” You just gave yourself away, Mr. Trump! 🙂 While I cannot know for sure at this point what more will come out, I do expect bad things will, and I won’t be all that surprised. Unless it’s something completely unfathomable. My original post was just to point out that erroneous statement. Nothing annoys me more when some pundit somewhere makes an obviously phony comment to serve some greater purpose, whether they are on the right or the left, and either leaves out important context or just outright lies. And I don’t really see how the additional information supports the idea of Pence doing what Giuliani admitted to, that is, trying to get the Bidens investigated. But \*if \*Pence was involved it won’t be a surprise to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/136 "2019-09-26T13:51:34Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > “Many people are saying that.” You just gave yourself away, Mr. Trump! 🙂 “Many” means both Hannity \*and \*Carlson. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/137 "2019-09-26T15:28:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Many” means both Hannity \*and \*Carlson. Yeah, unless it’s just the many voices inside the Trump’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/138 "2019-09-26T15:57:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not seeing the fawning by Zelensky: > The guy is almost literally between a rock and hard place with Russia on one side and Trump on the other. He needs the money and the military equipment. He is bewildered by Trumps mob style diplomacy, ‘Nice country you have there President Zelensky. Shame if something were to happen to it.’ He’s inexperienced and probably not up to the job. But is he fawning? I don’t see it. If anything, he’s shining Trump on. It’s the classic tactic you would use when dealing with a high conflict personality like Trump. Well, he said on TV that he wasn’t pressured. He sat in front of a TV camera while Trump stared him down and claimed he didn’t feel pressured. One of the most surreal things I’ve seen with this administration, rivaled only by Trump considering the extradition of Bill Browder in exchange for Russia’s help in combating election interference. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/139 "2019-09-26T16:08:15Z")
Yeah, that was something. And before it was clear that he was done speaking, Trump faced the cameras and declared “He was NOT pressured” or “No pressure” or some such. What a goon. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633/140 "2019-09-26T17:57:53Z")
I may be giving Zelensky too much benefit of the doubt, but I still think he’s keenly aware that in dealing with Trump he is handling a dangerous mental patient that has chewed his way out of his restraints. You want to avoid angering him as you slowly back out of the room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-to-me-why-this-trump-ukraine-thing-is-a-big-deal/840633.md?page=8)