# PLEASE FIX - Should you sign the back of your credit cards? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588 "2008-05-08T18:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/21 "2008-05-11T17:54:13Z")
Give up. No one checks the signature. [This guy](http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/) signed his credit card slips such things as “Mariah Carey,” “Kris P. Kreme,” and “My Butt,” and said no one blinked. I haven’t gone that far, but I have signed “Zeus” and an illegible scrawl that looked like ocean waves, and, yup, no one blinked. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/22 "2008-05-12T16:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=coffeecat] Give up. No one checks the signature. [This guy](http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/) signed his credit card slips such things as “Mariah Carey,” “Kris P. Kreme,” and “My Butt,” and said no one blinked. I haven’t gone that far, but I have signed “Zeus” and an illegible scrawl that looked like ocean waves, and, yup, no one blinked. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’ve seen that guy’s site, too. I’m probably the only merchant left that actually does what the Visa/MC agreement says I have to do. Incidentally, a lot of people do write “See ID” or some variant thereof on their cards, and I almost universally get a “thank you” when I do ask to see the ID. It makes my customers happy. Why would I _not_ do it? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/23 "2008-05-12T16:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Yeah, I’ve seen that guy’s site, too. I’m probably the only merchant left that actually does what the Visa/MC agreement says I have to do. Incidentally, a lot of people do write “See ID” or some variant thereof on their cards, and I almost universally get a “thank you” when I do ask to see the ID. It makes my customers happy. Why would I _not_ do it? [/QUOTE] If you do what the agreement says you have to do, you don’t accept cards that say “see ID” on the back, unless you request that they show ID and then SIGN the Card in your presence. We’ve covered this. But your underlying question: why shouldn’t I ask for ID if the customer’s card requests it? can be answered with “no real reason, probably.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/24 "2008-05-12T18:32:47Z")
When I got my driver’s license 4 years ago, they wouldn’t take my unsigned card. I went outside, signed it, and two minutes later they accepted it without batting an eye. :smack: They had to know what I did, and I suspect I could have simply signed it in front of the cashier. :smack: Since then, all my cards have a sig and CHECK ID, and only one in twenty clerks asks to see my ID. The local Lowe’s has a “sign here” terminal out in the sun in the garden dept. The sun has made the plastic opaque, and I can only guess what my sig looks like. It might seem that the card companies don’t care much about security, and it’s true. Lots of money is lost in card fraud, but that loss is microscopic compared to the trainloads of money they make from customers who use their cards foolishly. If you carry a continuous balance on your card, or worse, :eek: if you use those deadly cash advance checks they send you every two weeks, Massa Card and Squeeza Card love you (and yet they treat you so mean!) They live on your blood. ETA: Every clerk can get a fat reward if they catch a card fraud. How many actually pursue it? Not many. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/25 "2008-05-12T19:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] If you do what the agreement says you have to do, you don’t accept cards that say “see ID” on the back, unless you request that they show ID and then SIGN the Card in your presence. We’ve covered this. [/QUOTE] Yes, we did cover it. Over and over. In several different threads. And you STILL didn’t notice that I’m talking about signing the card _AND_ writing “see ID.” I do not promote not signing the cards. I never have promoted not signing the cards. In the post you responded to, I didn’t even _mention_ not signing the cards. We need a corollary to Gaudere’s Law: the one who says “we’ve covered this” is probably the one who didn’t read the posts where we covered it. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/26 "2008-05-14T06:43:23Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] This is especially true given that many of them have you sign that stupid little screen, and there is NO way that screen is going to identify a bogus signature!! [/QUOTE] Actually, there is technology available that will let a computer identify a bogus signature (one not matching an authorized one), and will do so more accurately than a human comparing a sales slip signature to the one on your card. Besides comparing various points of the way the signature looks, they also consider factors like the speed & timing of the signing. Of course, to actually set up such a system would require better quality sensors than the current screens people sign on, it would require people to have on file an ‘authentic’ signature signed on a similar screen, and it would require significantly more communication bandwidth between the cash register screen and the credit card company database. All of that involves increased cost. Currently, the cost from losses to fraud is not enough for the credit companies to invest in such an upgrade to the system. But it’s likely that someday they will move toward such a system. Or one using something like a thumbprint authorization system. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/27 "2008-05-14T15:54:12Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] And you STILL didn’t notice that I’m talking about signing the card _AND_ writing “see ID.” I do not promote not signing the cards. I never have promoted not signing the cards. [/QUOTE] But no merchant has to pay any attention to the “see ID” part of the card. Once they verify the sig they are under no obligation to follow your other instructions. They may choose to do so, but it may be against store policy (slows down the line) and they might not. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/28 "2008-05-14T16:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] But no merchant has to pay any attention to the “see ID” part of the card. Once they verify the sig they are under no obligation to follow your other instructions. They may choose to do so, but it may be against store policy (slows down the line) and they might not. [/QUOTE] _sigh_ Is this really so complicated? People are worried about their cards being stolen and used by the thief, so they write “See ID” under (or next to) their signature. When such a card is presented to me, I ask for ID. It makes the customer happy. It helps prevent card theft. Why do so many of you seem to have a problem with this? Face it, lazy clerks who don’t check signatures, photos, and names on cards have made it easier than ever to use stolen cards. Merchants who don’t train clerks to quickly and efficiently handle cash help people buy into the “Credit cards are faster” hype from Visa, which puts even more pressure on the clerks to just ram a credit card sale through without proper checking. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/29 "2008-05-14T17:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] People are worried about their cards being stolen and used by the thief, so they write “See ID” under (or next to) their signature. When such a card is presented to me, I ask for ID. It makes the customer happy. It helps prevent card theft. Why do so many of you seem to have a problem with this? [/QUOTE] I don’t think anyone has a problem with it. But we are saying that while _you_ follow the wishes of the card/customer, no other merchant is required to do the same thing. It may not accomplish what is desired. And, since most clerks I’ve met never even look at the signature, they won’t see the “See ID” message anyways. I don’t have a problem with writing “See ID” as long as you’ve signed the card, but the fact remains that in current usage it doesn’t add much if any security. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/30 "2008-05-15T01:59:48Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] _sigh_ Is this really so complicated? People are worried about their cards being stolen and used by the thief, so they write “See ID” under (or next to) their signature. When such a card is presented to me, I ask for ID. It makes the customer happy. It helps prevent card theft. Why do so many of you seem to have a problem with this? Face it, lazy clerks who don’t check signatures, photos, and names on cards have made it easier than ever to use stolen cards. Merchants who don’t train clerks to quickly and efficiently handle cash help people buy into the “Credit cards are faster” hype from Visa, which puts even more pressure on the clerks to just ram a credit card sale through without proper checking. [/QUOTE] I have never seen the request written next to or under the signature. General rule of thumb is to find it written instead of the signature. If the only time you accept the card with “See ID” or “Ask for ID” is if this phrase is included along with a signature, then all is fine. You will, I hope, forgive me for not bothering to check through every post in this thread to see if that is what you said or not. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/31 "2008-05-15T02:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] If the only time you accept the card with “See ID” or “Ask for ID” is if this phrase is included along with a signature, then all is fine. [/QUOTE] Yes, that’s exactly what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/32 "2008-05-15T03:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] I don’t think anyone has a problem with it. [/QUOTE] I do, if I’m the next customer in line, and have to wait longer while you cater to the foolish hysteria of this person. It’s a pretty pointless ‘security’ check anyway – if someone stole your credit card, they probably stole your whole purse or wallet, and so they have all your ID to show, also. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/33 "2008-05-15T13:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] It’s a pretty pointless ‘security’ check anyway – if someone stole your credit card, they probably stole your whole purse or wallet, and so they have all your ID to show, also. [/QUOTE] While I generally agree, it’s no good if the thief has your driver’s license if he/she doesn’t look anything like you. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/34 "2008-05-15T14:47:13Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] I have never seen the request written next to or under the signature. [/QUOTE] If we ever run into each other at a Dopefest, ask to see my cards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/35 "2008-05-15T21:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] While I generally agree, it’s no good if the thief has your driver’s license if he/she doesn’t look anything like you. [/QUOTE] Only if the clerk is willing to challenge the customer if they think the picture looks different. Why would they do that? You average clerk/cashier gets a straight hourly wage, and has no incentive to challenge a customer. And given the poor quality of most driver’s license pictures, often such a challenge would be incorrect, and that would tend to annoy the customer. Even security people don’t really look at those cards and compare them to the person. At one place where I worked, 2 employees exchanged their picture id cards that we had to wear hanging around our necks every day. One was a big, bearded black guy, about 6’5" tall and 280 pounds, aged mid-40’s. The other was a 20-something woman with long blond hair, at least a foot shorter and weighing at most 110 pounds. Yet they wore each others’ ID cards for a couple of weeks or so, with no questions asked, even though they had to show them every time they entered or left the building, and again when going into the secured areas. Finally, someone questioned them, when she forgot her cash and used a check to pay at the coffee shop in the lobby – the clerk there noticed the difference when writing the company id number onto the check. Even then, she just laughed and said you’re wearing your husbands’ ID badge, and took the check anyway. They were NOT married, and their names were nothing alike. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/36 "2008-05-16T15:49:42Z")
Not to mention the recent stories in the news about employees, including at least one security guard, who were fired for stopping shoplifters, ‘cause, y’know, they might _sue_ or sumthin’. It seems “the customer is always right” is now to be taken to apply even to thieves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/37 "2008-05-16T15:49:31Z")
Not to mention the recent stories in the news about employees, including at least one security guard, who were fired for stopping shoplifters, ‘cause, y’know, they might _sue_ or sumthin’. It seems “the customer is always right” is now to be taken to apply even to thieves. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/38 "2008-05-18T06:23:59Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Only if the clerk is willing to challenge the customer if they think the picture looks different. Why would they do that? You average clerk/cashier gets a straight hourly wage, and has no incentive to challenge a customer. And given the poor quality of most driver’s license pictures, often such a challenge would be incorrect, and that would tend to annoy the customer. [/QUOTE] Or get the salesperson a punch in the face. It’s not worth the hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588/39 "2008-05-18T18:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] Or get the salesperson a punch in the face. It’s not worth the hassle. [/QUOTE] Or a complaint to the manager. Imagine the clerk in a high-class womens clothing store saying to the customer “I don’t know if I can accept this ID – you look so much older than in this picture”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-fix-should-you-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards/448588.md?page=1)