# Please, for the love of Og, tell me we landed on the moon... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2007, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286 "2007-11-21T04:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/101 "2007-11-27T19:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Just like with gunfire! [/QUOTE] Preciesely. “I like the cut of that man’s gibberish!” – The Tick Stranger ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/102 "2007-11-27T19:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] just can’t admit error, can you. [/QUOTE] What frickin board are you reading? BTW, How is that Randi Challenge coming along? Win the million bucks yet? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/103 "2007-11-27T19:39:11Z")
Oh, so that’s what it’s about. Talk about obsessed. You just can’t leave it alone, can you. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/104 "2007-11-27T19:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] What I suggested was that the moon guy is equally serious, and equally ignorant. [/QUOTE] Was somebody else using your account without your knowledge when the above quote was posted? That quote is not the words of somebody who realized the “moon guy” challenge was meant as parody. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/105 "2007-11-27T19:59:09Z")
Try and un…der…stand I was joking. Now, give it a rest. Please. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/106 "2007-11-27T20:02:49Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Try and un…der…stand I was joking. Now, give it a rest. Please. [/QUOTE] Lamest. Wiggle. I. Have. EVER! Seen. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/107 "2007-11-27T20:11:12Z")
I’m done talking to you. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/108 "2007-11-28T01:19:20Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] I take exception to your use of the term skepticism. Holocaust deniers are not skeptics these are either idiots or rascists with an agenda. [/QUOTE] Most stubborn skeptics have an agenda. Doesn’t change the fact that they believe the holocaust (at least as commonly conceived) never happened. Something similar happens with stubborn believers, i.e., those who believe without evidence and/or in the face of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/109 "2007-11-28T01:35:17Z")
Bugger! Fixed the wrong pronoun, then the edit window expired. Worse, now the quote is inaccurate. Let’s try this again. [QUOTE=askeptic] I take exception to your use of the term skepticism. Holocaust deniers are not skeptics they are either idiots or rascists with an agenda. [/QUOTE] Most stubborn skeptics have an agenda. Doesn’t change the fact that these believe the holocaust (at least as commonly conceived) never happened. Something similar happens with stubborn believers, i.e., those who believe without evidence and/or in the face of evidence. I am NOT obsessive. Am not, am not, am not! ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/110 "2007-11-28T01:53:06Z")
I agree that Holocaust Deniers are **not** skeptics. Skeptics, IMHO, do not accept common knowledge, or secondary sources; they hunt down and evaluate primary data. They also do **not** create a large body of secondary sources of dubious worth that might be cited by others. The only agenda most skeptics have is to be cranky old farts or angry young men. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/111 "2007-11-28T02:05:44Z")
Has this thread gotten to [this point](http://xkcd.com/202/) yet? If not, somebody call me when it does. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/112 "2007-11-28T04:25:38Z")
We? We landed on the moon? You, maybe, landed on the moon. I never did. I’m pretty sure some other guys did, but We did not. I have never flown farther than Los Angeles. I don’t even have a damn passport. Surely, you need one to leave the planet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/113 "2007-11-28T04:39:44Z")
Hey **J666** , welcome to the Board. I am using skeptic and skepticism in the ordinary sense (from Merriam-Webster) of “an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object.” Skeptics come in many shapes, flavors and spins. See, e.g., R.T. Carroll’s [Introduction](http://skepdic.com/intro.html) to the Skeptic’s Dictionary. In any event, I don’t think the position can be sustained that only someone approaching the problem with an epistemology of which you approve is entitled to the label. BTW, great cartoon, **Cosmic Relief**. And, **AskNot** , it’s to get back that you need the passport. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/114 "2007-11-28T05:10:46Z")
**TWEEEEET!!!** James Randi is neither a topic nor a participant in this thread. Jabbing at other posters regarding ancient battles, while possibly acceptable when done in good humor for very brief periods, becomes both boring and jerkish if carried on for more than a couple of posts. That topic and related jabs will now cease in this thread. [Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/115 "2007-11-28T05:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] I don’t even have a damn passport. Surely, you need one to leave the planet. 😉 [/QUOTE] Well, it was before 9/11. Things were more relaxed. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/116 "2007-11-28T22:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=PBear42] (from Merriam-Webster) of “an **attitude** of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object.” … In any event, I don’t think the position can be sustained that only someone approaching the problem with an epistemology of which you approve is entitled to the label. [emphasis mine] [/QUOTE] I am surprised at that definition. I don’t think skepticism is an “attitude”. (I really like “disposition to incredulity” though.) \*… runs over to Merriam-Webster … \* hmm, that is the complete quote \*… runs over to Bartleby’s … checks the American Heritage … \* ah, yes, this is the usage with which I am familar: “One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.” No attitude about it. But, how can I approve of epistemology? \*… back to Merriam-Webster … \* Oh, MW says “the study **or a theory** of the nature and grounds of knowledge especially with reference to its limits and validity” [emphasis mine] And which problem are we approaching here? The moon landing or HD? I’m losing track. Anyhow, my original point was that most HDers don’t just **doubt** , they actively misrepresent, and disseminate those misrepresentations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/117 "2007-11-28T23:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] We? We landed on the moon? You, maybe, landed on the moon. I never did. I’m pretty sure some other guys did, but We did not. I have never flown farther than Los Angeles. I don’t even have a damn passport. Surely, you need one to leave the planet. 😉 [/QUOTE] No you don’t! You just need a tab off this here blotter! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/118 "2007-11-29T02:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] We? We landed on the moon? You, maybe, landed on the moon. I never did. I’m pretty sure some other guys did, but We did not. I have never flown farther than Los Angeles. I don’t even have a damn passport. Surely, you need one to leave the planet. 😉 [/QUOTE] Are we feeling a little overly literal today? ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2007, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/119 "2007-11-29T06:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=j666] And which problem are we approaching here? The moon landing or HD? I’m losing track. Anyhow, my original point was that most HDers don’t just **doubt** , they actively misrepresent, and disseminate those misrepresentations. [/QUOTE] For our purposes, I assume we are talking about HDers. That was context of the statement to which **askeptic** objected, with which you joined. Still, I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. I’ll agree that HDers misrepresent facts and are, patently, bad historians. I’ll further agree that their misrepresentations are agenda driven. The question, I think, is whether they may fairly be described as skeptics. And, here’s where it gets interesting, whether anyone with agenda-driven doubts (refusals to accept) may be called a skeptic. I think the answer is "yes’ and “yes.” If you think otherwise, why? Further, are we talking about substance or semantics? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286/120 "2007-11-29T11:24:42Z")
No _true_ Sceptsman would lie, or accept lies from others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-for-the-love-of-og-tell-me-we-landed-on-the-moon/427286.md?page=7)