# Please give this man 9 years, please... (dad kills dog in front of kids) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568 "2011-03-30T21:53:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/21 "2011-03-31T14:33:10Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I know this isn’t going to be popular, but here goes anyway: > > It’s a dog. Not a person. Kicking it to death in front of children is an incredibly fucked up thing to do, but I don’t think it deserves a prison sentence. Not the first time, at least; if someone makes a habit of it that’s an entirely different kettle of fish, of course. > > And I say this as someone who _is_ fond of animals. I have to agree with you. The whole situation with this guy and the family pet is a pretty fucked up one shot deal and a tragedy all round for everyone including the perp. As far a cruelty to the kids is concerned I hope the OP and those who are with her on this issue feel good about themselves wishing to take the kids father from them for 9 years. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/22 "2011-03-31T14:37:54Z")
No one saying jail is too harsh - and I agree, 9 years probably is - has any suggestions about what sentence might be appropriate. People, if you want him to go unpunished, please, _say so_ and defend that position. Don’t be mealymouthed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/23 "2011-03-31T14:38:14Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > As far a cruelty to the kids is concerned I hope the OP and those who are with her on this issue feel good about themselves wishing to take the kids father from them for 9 years. Dunno about the OP, but the thought of protecting the kids from this sociopath for as long as possible makes me feel as good as if I were licking strawberry cheesecake off Jessica Alba’s boobs. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/24 "2011-03-31T14:48:00Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I have to agree with you. The whole situation with this guy and the family pet is a pretty fucked up one shot deal and a tragedy all round for everyone including the perp. As far a cruelty to the kids is concerned I hope the OP and those who are with her on this issue feel good about themselves wishing to take the kids father from them for 9 years. I’m sure that there are plenty of occasions when jailing parents puts children at less risk, regardless of what the children think about it. They may well be safer and happier without him around. Unless you think observing your family pet being murdered is character building and an element often missing from the modern parent’s toolbox? I imagine his behaviour towards his dog is a pretty good indicator of the type of person he is. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/25 "2011-03-31T14:49:51Z")
> [@carm](#): > > That said, I abhor cruelty to animals. However, I don’t put it on a par with cruelty to humans, or even close. I don’t think anyone’s putting it on par here. Imagine he kicked a child, or any helpless person to death - I can’t imagine the maximum sentence he would face is 9 years. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/26 "2011-03-31T14:53:19Z")
What do we think of psychological counseling plus community service? Maybe in an animal shelter, if he shows progress with the therapy? (I’m particularly interested in the opinions of those who said “no jail.”) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/27 "2011-03-31T15:19:16Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I don’t think anyone’s putting it on par here. > > Imagine he kicked a child, or any helpless person to death - I can’t imagine the maximum sentence he would face is 9 years. Yes, in addition, if you read the linked article, part of the potential sentence isn’t for animal abuse, it’s for cruelty to children. Remember he kicked the dog to death in front of his kids. Animal abuse cases merit much less jail time, AFAICT. (Doper lawyers with expertise, please weigh in on this.) Mike Vick only got 3 years for multiple counts. As an omnivore who supports animal medical research I’m no animal rights activist. But I do feel that deliberate sadistic cruelty to domestic animals bred to depend on us should merit punishment. And I think it is an indicator that something is very wrong with someone. I’ll swat insects in the summer, but I won’t pull the wings off them to watch them stumble around. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/28 "2011-03-31T15:21:57Z")
Assuming Mr. Tessemer resides in an unincorporated rural area where discharging firearms for this purpose is not illegal, he should have shot it in the back of the head, demonstrating to his children a lesson in the proper way to eliminate an unwanted dog. Otherwise, pile everyone in the car for a little ride out in the country for same - and make the kids dig the hole. manual labor builds character. Problem solved, lessons learned and excellent outcomes for all around, including no animal cruelty. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/29 "2011-03-31T15:28:22Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > No one saying jail is too harsh - and I agree, 9 years probably is - has any suggestions about what sentence might be appropriate. > > People, if you want him to go unpunished, please, _say so_ and defend that position. Don’t be mealymouthed. Fine. I don’t think he should be punished. I think this sort of behaviour should be discouraged, and if the animal is living in really bad conditions, it should be taken away and found a new home. Either that, or if we come up with some list of “protected” animals - dogs, cats, horses (basically all domesticated animals) that it is illegal to be cruel to, then I would be fine with punishment for breaking that law. It’s the people that get all upset when a cute looking animal is hurt, yet have no qualms about putting down rat poison that annoy me. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/30 "2011-03-31T15:31:18Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Fine. I don’t think he should be punished. I think this sort of behaviour should be discouraged, and if the animal is living in really bad conditions, it should be taken away and found a new home. It’s traditional to insert some padding between mutually exclusive assertions, in order to maintain a pretense of respect for the reader’s intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/31 "2011-03-31T15:48:32Z")
Right, I should have said punished _by jail time, community service, or fines._ Whatever. I left that out precisely _because_ I have respect for the reader’s intelligence, most of them anyway. You clearly need stuff spelt out for you though, so I’ll try simplify stuff for you in future. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/32 "2011-03-31T16:00:31Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Right, I should have said punished _by jail time, community service, or fines._ Whatever. If you’re proposing a simple finger-wagging or mere removal of the animal as “punishment” – well, that obviously won’t suffice. As I noted, someone whose conscience is fundamentally defective (as indicated by such behavior) needs to have the fear put into him (that being the only remaining barrier to unlimited criminal sociopathy) for the protection of society generally. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/33 "2011-03-31T16:02:23Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Assuming Mr. Tessemer resides in an unincorporated rural area where discharging firearms for this purpose is not illegal, he should have shot it in the back of the head, demonstrating to his children a lesson in the proper way to eliminate an unwanted dog. > > Otherwise, pile everyone in the car for a little ride out in the country for same - and make the kids dig the hole. manual labor builds character. > > Problem solved, lessons learned and excellent outcomes for all around, including no animal cruelty. 😉 And the trolls come marching in… ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/34 "2011-03-31T16:06:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > If you’re proposing a simple finger-wagging or mere removal of the animal as “punishment” – well, that obviously won’t suffice. As I noted, someone whose conscience is fundamentally defective (as indicated by such behavior) needs to have the fear put into him (that being the only remaining barrier to unlimited criminal sociopathy) for the protection of society generally. So tell me, do you think farmers should be locked up for murder? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/35 "2011-03-31T16:11:27Z")
There’s such a huge difference between killing animals for food - which is done in a routine and generally painless manner - and kicking an animal to death. I don’t know of any farmer who would kill one of his livestock by beating it to death. Actually, farmers tend to have great respect for their animals. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/36 "2011-03-31T16:17:58Z")
I’m sorry. I don’t see how killing something “humanely” is better than beating an animal (although beating an animal to death, as happened in this case, is obviously worse). If we are going to project human values onto animals, then why are we allowed kill them, but not hurt them? Murder of a human is considered a far, far more serious crime than assault. Yet with animals it is the reverse. I don’t think this is based on any good reason, except squeamishness and the fact we are generally far removed from the actual slaughter of animals. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/37 "2011-03-31T16:23:34Z")
> [@carm](#): > > If we are going to project human values onto animals Er, try making some arguments that have some relevance to **the actual argument that has been presented to you**. Since you missed it the first several times, here it is again: 1. Humans act civilized for the following two reasons: 1a. Self-restraint and conscience 1b. Fear of punishment 2. The behavior described in the OP is a definitive indication that option 1a has left the building. 3. Therefore, option 1b must be reinforced so that it can bear the full load. The obvious method of doing so (and almost certainly the _only_ method of doing so, given that the behavior also indicates that sweet reason is unlikely to make any impression) is severe punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/38 "2011-03-31T16:32:12Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Assuming Mr. Tessemer resides in an unincorporated rural area where discharging firearms for this purpose is not illegal, he should have shot it in the back of the head, demonstrating to his children a lesson in the proper way to eliminate an unwanted dog. > > Otherwise, pile everyone in the car for a little ride out in the country for same - and make the kids dig the hole. manual labor builds character. > > Problem solved, lessons learned and excellent outcomes for all around, including no animal cruelty. 😉 It’s crueler to the kids than the dog. But hey, cruelty to kids builds character too. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/39 "2011-03-31T16:33:45Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Animal abuse, particularly when done in a manner calculated to constitute deliberate psychological abuse of other people, in a reliable indicator that the internal restraints simply aren’t there. We’re not in GD, and regardless, I’d like to know where you picked this little tidbit from? :rolleyes: I didn’t see any “manners calculated” in the linked story, maybe you can point that out. Or was it simply fabrication groundwork to reinforce your planned assault on society’s sensibilities WRT human behavior inasmuch as cruelty to animals may concerned? Just wondering… ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568/40 "2011-03-31T16:36:31Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > It’s crueler to the kids than the dog. But hey, cruelty to kids builds character too. And I’m one helluva character, in case you hadn’t noticed by now. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-this-man-9-years-please-dad-kills-dog-in-front-of-kids/576568.md?page=3)