# Please give us some pointers for our South-West USA road trip and tell us we're not crazy... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651 "2017-03-20T21:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/61 "2017-03-21T21:53:28Z")
I’m wondering about the “Glacier Point Hike”–are you talking about hiking up the 4 Mile (actually 4.8 mile)Trail and returning the same way? If so, get an early start–that trail doesn’t have a whole lot of shade in the summer. Another option you might consider is taking the bus tour(not the shuttle bus) one way up to Glacier Point and then hiking back to the valley on the Panorama Trail which takes you down via the Mist Trail, which is pretty spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/62 "2017-03-21T21:59:39Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I’m wondering about the “Glacier Point Hike”–are you talking about hiking up the 4 Mile (actually 4.8 mile)Trail and returning the same way? If so, get an early start–that trail doesn’t have a whole lot of shade in the summer. Another option you might consider is taking the bus tour(not the shuttle bus) one way up to Glacier Point and then hiking back to the valley on the Panorama Trail which takes you down via the Mist Trail, which is pretty spectacular. That sounds great - we’ll definitely keep that in mind. What sort of temperatures are we looking at in Yosemite Valley? ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/63 "2017-03-21T22:01:08Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Day 1 - Arrive at SFO, explore city > > Day 2 - sight seeing in San Francisco > > Day 3 - Six Flags Discovery Kingdom (“Marine World”), about 1hr away from SF. This will be a Wednesday, so yay! > > Day 4 - drive into Yosemite, hike a bit, relax (driving time 4 hrs) > > Day 5 - Glacier Point hike (we’ve been told if you’re not doing this hike, you might just not bother going at all), no driving today. > > Day 6 - drive to Lee Vining via Tioga Road, maybe spend the evening at Mono Lake (driving time 2 hrs, assuming my Google-fu has not failed me - it’s a bit difficult calculating this trip since Google keeps assuming Tioga Road is closed) > > Day 7 - continue to Las Vegas, enjoy a show, wander the strip (driving time 5 1/2 hrs - this one’s gonna suck, but I can’t see any worthwhile stops along the way) Much better! For Glacier Point, since you’re serious hikers, I recommend the loop via Vernal/Nevada Falls, the Panorama Trail, then down the Four Mile Trail. Or reverse, if you want to start with a really steep climb. Yosemite Valley to Lee Vining is about 2 hours drive; good on you for making it a whole day – you’ll want to stop often to enjoy the views. Swim in Tenaya Lake, climb Lembert Dome. Mono Lake is also worth some time. Lee Vining to Vegas - consider 395 to Big Pine, then 168 over the White Mountains. Short side trip to see the [Bristlecone Pines](https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/specialplaces/?cid=stelprdb5129900), oldest trees on the planet. National Park lodging is generally reservable a year in advance. Can be pricy, but there are options like tent cabins in Yosemite that are rustic but comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/64 "2017-03-21T22:03:00Z")
Camping in Yosemite requires Devine Intervention. Might be hard to get a room in Lee Vining. I think there is only one hotel. Bishop is a short drive in the right direction and should be plenty to pick from. If you don’t mind camping, simply roll out of the park and head off into the woods. Problem solved, and its FREE! Plenty of places to do this north of the turnoff to Mammoth. I do it every so often. Never have a problem. South of there, not too much. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/65 "2017-03-21T22:11:43Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Much better! For Glacier Point, since you’re serious hikers, I recommend the loop via Vernal/Nevada Falls, the Panorama Trail, then down the Four Mile Trail. Or reverse, if you want to start with a really steep climb. > > Yosemite Valley to Lee Vining is about 2 hours drive; good on you for making it a whole day – you’ll want to stop often to enjoy the views. Swim in Tenaya Lake, climb Lembert Dome. Mono Lake is also worth some time. > > Lee Vining to Vegas - consider 395 to Big Pine, then 168 over the White Mountains. Short side trip to see the [Bristlecone Pines](https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/specialplaces/?cid=stelprdb5129900), oldest trees on the planet. > > National Park lodging is generally reservable a year in advance. Can be pricy, but there are options like tent cabins in Yosemite that are rustic but comfortable. Thank you! After yesterday’s beating, this sound very refreshing, and upon checking out your recommendations, these are definitely things we will do. Very excited now! ---
**Author:** ![Lightlystarched](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Lightlystarched](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightlystarched)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/66 "2017-03-21T22:19:07Z")
I’ve hiked the GC several times, usually in spring or fall. It will be VERY hot at the bottom in August. There is also no shade on the South Kaibab trail. Have you read about the German tourists in Death Valley? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/67 "2017-03-21T22:19:50Z")
I’ve lived in southwest Utah and have been to all the parks you’ve mentioned (did the S. Kaibab-B.A. hike as well). You’re second itinerary looks doable. One thing is that–if you really like hiking–you’re not leaving much time for it. Zion, especially, has some amazing hikes (Narrows, Angel’s Landing). Since you’ve already hiked the GC maybe skip that part and do back-country camping in Zion? Camping sites **in** Zion Park will be tough to get but you might get one just outside the park. At this point there’s no chance at getting a room in the park (unless you got lucky with a cancellation) but there are lots of places outside the park (including some B&Bs). I don’t know about camping availability in Bryce but keep in mind that it is ~ 9000 ft so it’ll be relatively cold at night. Hotel options are more limited than at Zion. Bryce is best at sunrise because the main part of the canyon faces east. There are also some great little state parks in that area as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/68 "2017-03-21T22:22:43Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > I’ve hiked the GC several times, usually in spring or fall. It will be VERY hot at the bottom in August. There is also no shade on the South Kaibab trail. > > Have you read about the German tourists in Death Valley? I have, and that’s why we’re avoiding the area. Thank you for your concern, but I’ve done this exact hike before, in late August. I know what I’m in for, and do not take it lightly. One thing I learned last time is to take twice the amount of water that seems crazy while walking down South Kaibab. Worse than no shade, it doesn’t have water along the way. This really made us enjoy that water station at the bottom eight years back! ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/69 "2017-03-21T22:56:09Z")
Depending on your actual dates, there is still lodging available in Yosemite Valley; reserve now. [http://www.travelyosemite.com](http://www.travelyosemite.com) Campsites in the Valley are probably all full, but there are less crowded campgrounds elsewhere in the park. If you’re ok with more primitive camping (i.e., outhouses) there are campgrounds in Yosemite, as well as outside the park near Lee Vining and June Lake, that will always have space available. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/70 "2017-03-22T01:00:08Z")
RE: camping in and around Yosemite–as mentioned, there are several campgrounds just outside of the park along CA120. Besides the spots to the east, there is Diamond O campground not far from the west entrance on Evergreen Road and quite a few primitive sites along the dirt roads in the nearby National Forest. As far as hotels go, first off, if you’ll be paying a premium for anything close to the park in summertime. Make your reservations now! There are several places in Lee Vining–nothing fancy, but no big deal if you’re just spending the night. I’ve stayed at the Lake View Lodge and it was fine. There’s also Mono Vista RV Park which has tent sites and showers. On the west side there are hotels, cabins and the like strung out between Groveland, Buck Meadows and the park entrance. If I had my choice I would stay at Evergreen Lodge or the newly-opened Rush Creek Lodge. Both pricey but worth it if you want to splurge. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/71 "2017-03-22T01:12:55Z")
> [@48Willys](#): > > I have no idea where to start. I could write a book on what is wrong with these plans. > > I have lived in the western US all of my life, over half a century. In August that part of the country is HOT!!! Take at least two gallons of water per person per day. I am NOT kidding! Keep it in the car & take it with you when you go hiking. I always carry four gallons of water per day with me when I plan on just driving, through that area, not hiking anywhere. I do this even in the wintertime. If my wife is with me, we carry eight gallons of water. > > I have no desire to come look for you when you fall over from heat stroke! I am prepared & I will come look. I will help carry you out, but please, take plenty of water, so I do not have to. I have done that way to often. It is usually some tourist who thought that the locals were kidding them when they said to take along, & drink, a lot of water. Also, do us both a favor, read up on the signs of dehydration. Know them well. If you do half of what is on your list during the hot afternoons, you WILL get dehydrated. I guarantee that. Recovery time from dehydration is longer than most folks think that it is. A week, not a day, & certainty not hours. Dehydrated and sun burned. It can be very dry in this part of the country and you won’t feel the heat or loss of fluids. 38 degrees can feel like 24 because your perspiration cools you off better than if you’re in a humid environment. VERY easy to get dehydrated and sun burned. > [@48Willys](#): > > One of many roads to not drive at night is the one east out of Yosemite. The views are stunning, don’t miss them. Be aware that at dawn & dusk, the wildlife is on the move. Think about deer & elk jumping in front of your car. On that twisty mountain road, deer & elk can kill you. Elk are the size of horses. Hitting one of them can ruin your whole day. Seriously, dawn and dusk are dangerous times to drive in the canyon areas. The mule tail deer are thick as mosquitoes and half as smart. Make sure you get car rental insurance. Make sure your spare tire is properly inflated when you pick it up. One thing you may not be aware of is visibility. It’s common for the dessert area to have 241 kilometer visibility. Stars will be incredibly bright at night away from cities. It’s a great time to watch satellites go by. [Here’s a site](http://www.n2yo.com/passes/?s=25544&tz=GMT-04:00)to start with that charts out the space station. If you sit back and look up an hour after sunset you’ll see a lot of satellites go by. Staying at a place like Zion canyon will afford you some great views. Pay attention to their hiking instructions. If you hike around the canyons cut into stone they are deadly when it rains. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/72 "2017-03-22T01:32:12Z")
If you dump Day 9, you can fit in Knott’s Berry Farm, which for my money has better roller coasters than Six Flags. You are hiking the Grand Canyon - you don’t really need to see another big hole in the ground. Zion is much prettier. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/73 "2017-03-22T05:19:56Z")
**Pitchmeister** , I hope these links give you helpful information about hiking in the Utah parks. [Utah Bucket List](http://local.sltrib.com/charts/bucketlist/bucketlisthome.html) [Tips to avoid crowds at Zion Park.](http://www.sltrib.com/blogs/hiking/5071770-155/tips-to-negotiate-or-avoid-the) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/74 "2017-03-22T13:00:17Z")
Looks MUCH more doable. 2 days at Zion and Bryce (including driving) stand out to me. Yeah, I guess there is SOME value to quick hits to say you’ve been somewhere, but I’d probably pick one or the other, and spend both days there. And you’ll need to figure out and narrow down what you want to do on those 2 partial days in LA, or else you could spend a lot of the time on expressways. I really like Red Rock Canyon west of Vegas. IIRC, there is a hokey “old west” town near there which we found to be a hoot. Possibly an “only in America” experience. Really neat dive bar. Staying at lodges in state and Nat’l parks is our preferred vacationing. The rooms aren’t too pricey (especially outside of the main lodges), but are rarely luxurious (which we don’t mind). The food is often pricey. We tend to go down to 2 meals a day - bring snacks for early breakfast, see some sights, then try to his a late lunch - maybe a buffet. Stock up for the afternoon’s activities, then hit the nice dining room for an early dinner. Off hours, you’ll likely find a cafeteria, tho the offerings may be slim and pricey. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/75 "2017-03-22T19:42:20Z")
> [@Lightlystarched](#): > > Have you read about the German tourists in Death Valley? [Sad story](http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/): July 1996, a man and his girlfriend and each with their own son, disappeared in DVNP. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > I have, and that’s why we’re avoiding the area. **I** f you enjoy the SW USA scenery then Death Valley is truly beautiful. So, too is Valley of Fire, and since you’re doing a quick drive-through then it’s worth an hour for a quick drive-by shooting (photos). It’s not like you need more places to go, but hey, you never know. And on your day 6 it’s right along your way. No need to stop at the Visitor’s Center – it’s not that great. Just drive into the valley, enjoy the views, and drive out. Map, Vegas to Valley of Fire to Zion: [Google Maps](https://goo.gl/maps/yGLUyZ3mZ9s) – [it adds 1:20 to the direct route (map)](https://goo.gl/maps/r5WwT6jrBNC2), and less if you don’t drive all the way into the valley. The entire detour can be one hour. Some quick images: [valley of fire state park nevada - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=valley+of+fire+state+park+nevada&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlu52V6erSAhXBSCYKHW6FBaEQ_AUICSgC&biw=1470&bih=795) On a bright, sunny day the valley really lights up beautifully. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/76 "2017-03-22T19:53:30Z")
If your travels take you through the central coast, have a stay a the Madonna Inn. It has all sorts of [quirky rooms](https://www.madonnainn.com/features.php). We try to go there every year or two and last time we stayed in Daisy Mai which was like staying in a cave. Very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/77 "2017-03-22T20:00:54Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > If your travels take you through the central coast, have a stay a the Madonna Inn. It has all sorts of [quirky rooms](https://www.madonnainn.com/features.php). We try to go there every year or two and last time we stayed in Daisy Mai which was like staying in a cave. Very cool. +1 for the Madonna Inn, just off of Hwy 101 in San Luis Obispo. A nice place to stay. And a nice place for a meal. If you don’t have time to stay the night, at least stop in for a restroom break. The restrooms are unique as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/78 "2017-04-01T11:54:18Z")
OP here with a little update. We are now completely committed. Flights are booked (oh, did I mention we are spending 6 days in New York before our road trip? Thread may follow…), and 90% of our accomodation is taken care of. Boy, you guys weren’t kidding when you talked about how busy Yosemite is. We just barely managed to get a campsite for one of our two nights (a weeknight), and had to resort to a lodge for the weekend night - at a pretty extortionate price, I’m sure, for what this lodge has to offer. We booked hotels along the way, and some campsites around the national parks, so we’re pretty much 100% locked in with regard to our schedule. Let’s hope nothing major gets in our way. Thanks for the Madonna Inn suggestion, **Enola Gay** , but due to the Route 1 closure at Big Sur, we won’t be anywhere near there. Looks cool, though! We may come back later with some questions about specifics along the way. Again, thank you all! ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/79 "2017-04-01T12:06:04Z")
TLDR it all, but: The Grand Canyon is one of the most spectacular places on earth. In July or August, it will be hot at the top (7000 foot elevation). The bottom will be BRUTALLY HOT, comparable to Phoenix or Yuma. Also, you DO know that you need permits to overnight below the rim? They could be available since no one else goes that late in the summer. Third: Hiking down in much harder on your body than hiking up. Down = jarring. Up = tiring. That said, yes cut down your goals but have fun! It’s a fantastic part of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651/80 "2017-04-01T12:16:16Z")
> [@campp](#): > > TLDR it all, but: > > The Grand Canyon is one of the most spectacular places on earth. In July or August, it will be hot at the top (7000 foot elevation). The bottom will be BRUTALLY HOT, comparable to Phoenix or Yuma. > > Also, you DO know that you need permits to overnight below the rim? They could be available since no one else goes that late in the summer. > > Third: Hiking down in much harder on your body than hiking up. Down = jarring. Up = tiring. > > That said, yes cut down your goals but have fun! It’s a fantastic part of the Earth. Thank you. We have put in a request for a backcountry permit a couple of days ago - and you are right, chances to get it (at least this early) are pretty much 100%. I’ve done the hike, so I know what I’m in for. Does anybody know if you can have dinner at Phantom Ranch if you’re not staying there? It seems to be possible, but I haven’t found any specifics as to how to book it. Oh, and another thing about hot, brutal deserts: even though I said we would be giving Death Valley a wide berth, our drive on day 7 from Bishop to Las Vegas will pretty much lead us right through it. Any tips you can give for stuff to see basically along highway 190? I’m aware of the need to have lots and lots of water and to enter the park with a full tank of gas. It just seems silly to go around the park, when we could just as easily drive through it with about 30 minutes of extra driving time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-give-us-some-pointers-for-our-south-west-usa-road-trip-and-tell-us-were-not-crazy/782651.md?page=5)