# Please help me come out. I'm really very scared. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318 "2013-12-02T23:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/42 "2013-12-03T22:43:29Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > … the thought of having to say 1) gay 2) very very very long-distance might be a double whammy that is hard to get (why is it hard to get? I’m not sure, perhaps I don’t believe people will see my relationship is valid)… Sorry, I missed this comment of yours earlier, and couldn’t let it go. Even if someone is a complete homophobe, it’s not like straight folks don’t have long-distance relationships too. Besides, I don’t think you have to go into all the nitty-gritty details of your relationship: the gender & location of the other person are pretty irrelevant to a quick water-cooler chat: “Hey, **AimToPlease** , my brother-in-law would think you’re awesome. Can I hook you two up? Are you single?” “Actually, I’m seeing someone.” “Oh, bullshit! I haven’t seen you with anyone.” “It’s a long-distance relationship. Always a bit tough, you know, but we’re making it work. Thanks anyway – see you at the meeting!” :: cue \*\*AimToPlease \*\*exit stage left :: Would something like that work for you? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/43 "2013-12-03T23:03:03Z")
This kind of jumped out at me - > [@](#): > > I recently went on a corporate training weekend on communication skills/teamwork/etc. and the trainer who worked with our team took me aside and said “you know, you’re a great leader but I can tell you hide something back, you wear a mask but you wear it very well.” I’m male and straight, but isn’t what you reveal and what you don’t up to you? Some things ISTM are not any of corporate’s business. If you want to come out at work, great, but it ought to be your decision, even on a training weekend. It is quite possible that this is a bigger deal to you than it would be to 90% of your co-workers. So, perhaps, a dramatic announcement might be overkill. You are under no obligation either to hide or reveal **anything** about your personal life, unless it directly impacts your work. > [@](#): > > What if someone higher-up is personally anti-gay, I wouldn’t want anything to act as a further discriminator on being chosen for promotions. Well, sure, that could be true. But that would seem to be an argument against the Dramatic Announcement and in favor of doing your job, neither publicizing nor denying. I would bet it is possible that, if you are the person who is known mostly for her stellar performance at work rather than The Gay Gal, that you have a better chance for promotion, even with homophobes. I hope it turns out well for you no matter what. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/44 "2013-12-03T23:33:30Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > I live in a village 😕 2 hour round trip to the nearest ‘city life’. > > Greg Charles, > > Woops, how could I forget, I even work in the Eng bit myself 😕 ! Am I the only one who is baffled by what this means? Is that supposed to mean that you live in England, in a small village about 2 hours drive from the nearest large city? Is that even possible in England? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/45 "2013-12-03T23:45:25Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > I’m in a position where I’m back in the closet and its absolutely suffocating me. I think I hide it well but the intuitive can tell I hold back somehow. I recently went on a corporate training weekend on communication skills/teamwork/etc. and the trainer who worked with our team took me aside and said “you know, you’re a great leader but I can tell you hide something back, you wear a mask but you wear it very well.” I’d just like to point out that this is a [Barnum statement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading#The_Forer_effect_.28Barnum_statements.29) mixed with a [rainbow ruse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading#The_rainbow_ruse). Corporate trainers make their bank by cold reading clients. The same goes for evangelists, self help gurus, life coaches, and motivational speakers. He vaguely guessed that you’re feeling an emotion that lots of people feel. He didn’t have some sort of great insight into your psyche. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/46 "2013-12-03T23:55:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I the only one who is baffled by what this means? Is that supposed to mean that you live in England, in a small village about 2 hours drive from the nearest large city? Is that even possible in England? No, the “Eng” part is that the “E” in STEM stands for Engineering, not Electrical as she indicated in the OP. Not sure where she lives… but two hours from city life? Not for me. I lived one hour from town for a while and just about went nuts. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/47 "2013-12-04T00:03:37Z")
My opinion? You’ll get far more discrimination and biased opinions from being a scientist than a gay. Tell us about that aspect of you instead. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/48 "2013-12-04T00:13:54Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > The people who work there that are my age can actually be very crude in the way they talk about sex, openly at the watercooler too. Even if I was straight, I don’t partake in that sort of convo anyway. > > And the bit that I bolded, all of it. I’m scared of all of it. Career-wise we all know that promotions are a mixture of good work and being liked. What if someone higher-up is personally anti-gay, I wouldn’t want anything to act as a further discriminator on being chosen for promotions. > > I don’t know why I have this aversion to people gossiping. It’s the thought of my persona being completely out of my control. I think the thought of being the butt of stereotypes is something that’ll really grind my gears. I get many stereotypes for being a woman in a man’s world anyway, god knows if I have to put up with gay remarks too. > > Thank you for the welcome 🙂 You sound a lot like me about five or six years ago, when I graduated from field work and academia to office work and the “real world”. It was a tough transition. Academia is full of nerds, social misfits, and eccentricities. It encourages these traits. And everyone is so young, too. But when I moved into the office, it was a whole new world. Suddenly everyone was older than me. Not (just) chronologically, but also in their mindsets. These people hadn’t spent a bajillion years in school like I had. While I was bushwacking through the Everglades, they were getting married and buying houses and having children. So they all seemed to have their shit together while I didn’t. I felt all wrong. The feeling hasn’t gone away for me yet, but it’s not nearly as intense. One thing I’ve learned is people are going to make assumptions about you no matter what you do. Like, today a coworker caught me eating a BBQ sandwich and he told me he didn’t know I ate meat. Why he would make this assumption, I have no idea. I am always the first to dig into some meat when we have potlucks. I imagine there are others who assume the same thing, and I imagine a small subset of them don’t like me for this reason. But what the hell can I do about it? Nothing. Just like I can’t do anything if they assume I’m gay. All I can do is focus on excelling at my job and let people think whatever they are inclined to think. You’re right that promotions often hinge on being liked. But you can be liked without disclosing all your personal business. ---
**Author:** ![WeAimToPlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e99b99/32.png) [@WeAimToPlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeAimToPlease)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/49 "2013-12-04T00:42:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I the only one who is baffled by what this means? Is that supposed to mean that you live in England, in a small village about 2 hours drive from the nearest large city? Is that even possible in England? Nope nope that’s 1 hour each way, 2 hour round-trip! And the ‘Eng’ meant Engineering. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Corporate trainers make their bank by cold reading clients. The same goes for evangelists, self help gurus, life coaches, and motivational speakers. You know, I never considered that cold-reading could be a factor. Fair point, definitely puts a different spin on the comment I received. > [@Nava](#): > > Same-sex marriage. Sorry, I’m so used to using the acronym around here I forgot to spell it out. > > And you can chuckle at my expense, chuckles are good for your health. Heh, my country has no SSM but it’s working on it. I’m wholly aware how good Europe is compared to a lot of the world and am forever thankful I’m in a more progressive part of the globe. I really loved how the rumors surrounding you were related to being a sexual deviant, to being celibate, to being a murder 😕 contradiction much. I think your example really goes to illustrate how ridiculous gossipers are and that it is indeed out of one’s control. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > “Hey, **AimToPlease** , my brother-in-law would think you’re awesome. Can I hook you two up? Are you single?” > “Actually, I’m seeing someone.” > “Oh, bullshit! I haven’t seen you with anyone.” > “It’s a long-distance relationship. Always a bit tough, you know, but we’re making it work. Thanks anyway – see you at the meeting!” > :: cue \*\*AimToPlease \*\*exit stage left :: > Would something like that work for you? You know what, I really like that haha. I’m still scared about having to explain further the NEXT time I would see that person in case they delve deeper and I get stuck deciding whether to actually be less ambiguous… but yeah something like what you said is definitely a good starting point in revealing bits about my private life bit by bit. > [@Shodan](#): > > I would bet it is possible that, if you are the person who is known mostly for her stellar performance at work rather than The Gay Gal, that you have a better chance for promotion, even with homophobes. > > I hope it turns out well for you no matter what. Thanks Shodan. You’re right, I would prefer to be known as Stellar Performer rather than Gay Gal. To go back to what some people have mentioned, indeed I’m sure it’s a much bigger deal for me than it is for anyone else. Perspective is a wonderful thing. I’ve had some rather neutral / negative coming-out experiences and perhaps this has impacted me. It’s less the fact that I am gay, it’s almost the fact that people don’t BELIEVE I’m gay. When I came out to my best guy friends (separately), they both proceeded to try and kiss me during my coming out conversation! So sure they were that I surely couldn’t be gay and that I must like guys still. As for my parents, they don’t HATE me but they constantly talk about why I’m trying to make life harder for myself and if I could just settle down with a nice man my life would be so much easier. As if I find it hard enough to accept myself but I gotta keep ‘battling’ everyone else around me as well. I know that logically, I shouldn’t give a monkey’s about what anyone else thinks about my sexuality but I suppose that’s my own internal battle that I have to figure out as well. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/50 "2013-12-04T01:36:58Z")
One more middle-aged straight white dude who thinks you should go with the “That’s my girlfriend” route, **WeAimToPlease**. I strongly suspect - especially if you’re in western Europe - that the overwhelming reaction of your coworkers will be “Oh. Hunh. That’s cool. Do you have the Davidson report?” However, I am very aware that being a middle-aged straight white dude puts me in a very privileged demographic, and it is very very easy for _me_ to tell _you_ to take this step. I have not and probably will never experience the type of homophobia or racism that you have and will. So I won’t presume to advise you. But for what it’s worth, you’d get no grief from me, were I one of your co-workers. I’m not just saying that - of the five or six friends and co-workers who have come out to me, the only one who really caused me any distress was my closest, dearest college friend. That showed me that I was a bit more homophobic than I thought I was, and caused a rift for a couple of years. We got through it, though, and I was his best man when he got married this fall. You might keep in mind one of the best pieces of advice my mother ever gave me: Assume that everybody likes you, until they prove otherwise. In any case, good luck to you - as hard as coming out may be, it will, I think, ultimately make you happier. (Which probably won’t do your career prospects any harm, come to think of it…) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/51 "2013-12-04T02:54:24Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > I really loved how the rumors surrounding you were related to being a sexual deviant, If you view being gay as “being a sexual deviant”, may I recommend [this book](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denial-Years-Without-Kindle-Single-ebook/dp/B00CLJAMII/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1386125355&sr=8-10&keywords=without+a+soul)? I found the end insatisfactory (c´mon dude, learn to wrap things up a bit), but as an account of life inside a closet built from the notion that “liking other guys would be deviant, I’m not a deviant therefore it’s not possible for me to like other guys” I did find it interesting. You’ve already accepted that hey, yeah, you’re gay, but I think you still haven’t understood that being gay is actually pretty normal. You know, sort of like being a female engineer: yeah, sometimes you’ll be the only one in the room, but compare that with the situation 40 years ago (engineering schools in my country were closed to women, de jure if private and de facto if public) or 100 years ago (when my great-aunt Rosa snatched a science degree thanks to the availability of long-distance education and having signed all her paperwork as R.). It’s getting better all the time… ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/52 "2013-12-04T04:51:42Z")
Sounds like you are blaming married white middle aged men for your problem. Take responsibility for yourself and change your job. You’re only in your 20s, so it should be a doddle for you. I had 4 completely different careers by the time I was 50. BTW, long distance relationships in my experience are just not worth it in the end. I speak from experience. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/53 "2013-12-04T05:30:33Z")
Uh? She isn’t doing such a thing at all. A lot of married, straight, middle aged men have said “I (am the ‘standard’ demographic other-phobic-wise and) wouldn’t have a problem at all”. Way to thread-shit, **Doggo**. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/54 "2013-12-04T09:49:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You’ve already accepted that hey, yeah, you’re gay, but I think you still haven’t understood that being gay is actually pretty normal. You know, sort of like being a female engineer: yeah, sometimes you’ll be the only one in the room, but compare that with the situation 40 years ago (engineering schools in my country were closed to women, de jure if private and de facto if public) or 100 years ago (when my great-aunt Rosa snatched a science degree thanks to the availability of long-distance education and having signed all her paperwork as R.). It’s getting better all the time… Very well put **Nava**. **WeAimToPlease** , it’s clear to me that some of the negative experiences you have had coming out to close friends and family has in part caused your reticence. But these are The hardest people to come out to, the ones who have an emotional investment in you, the ones most likely to be shocked or upset. Your colleagues do not have that same emotional investment in you – they won’t care. And you will be much much happier being out, trust me on this. You will feel empowered and will stop caring about whether people will gossip or label you. As for career progression, here’s a story from my own back catalogue. I was in a senior position in a small company when the company was sold to a woman who was, as she admitted later on, homophobic. I was already out at work, so she knew already. I was great at my job, she knew it, and she gave me more pay rises than I had ever received in my life. We are close friends to this day. She actually credits me with her getting over her homophobia, as she was one of those people who hadn’t really known any gay people before and quickly realised that I was completely normal, and a real asset to the company. Do a good job and your bosses won’t care. And, honestly, no one will give a stuff about you having a long distance relationship. Why would they? ---
**Author:** ![WeAimToPlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e99b99/32.png) [@WeAimToPlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeAimToPlease)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/55 "2014-04-04T22:30:26Z")
Hi all, I thought I’d come back to update you all on the progress (if at all): I have come out to my departmental head at a New Years party. I hadn’t been planning to but he regaled a story about a man leaving the company because of homophobia once and he was sad to see the guy pushed out of the company because of his sexuality. To me, this signaled that whatever else may happen, I knew I would be ‘safe’ in his department. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/56 "2014-04-04T22:41:40Z")
Good for you, **WeAim**! 🙂 And thanks for getting back to us. How did he react? Does anyone else know yet? ---
**Author:** ![delsina363](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@delsina363](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delsina363)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/57 "2014-04-06T21:32:57Z")
Hi WeAimToPlease: I read your first post, and your last, and some of the posts in between. I am glad you came back with positive news. I was in 2 long term relationships with women, and I was always scared. For over 15 years I would lie to my co-workers and family. Even though my family must have known, it was an unwritten rule that we never talked about it. Fast forward, I am now in my 3rd long term relationship, this time with a man. I have to admit, at first it felt really good to be able to not have to lie anymore. However, now that I am just waiting for my kids to get out of school, so I can get a divorce, I wonder what the future will bring for me. I have come to learn, for me at least, with age comes acceptance. If I ever find myself in a relationship with a woman in the future, I will not lie again. I am older, and resent that in the past I had to hide who I really was. I hope sincerely that you can learn to accept yourself as you are, and not worry about others, life is way to short. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/58 "2014-04-07T15:36:57Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > I also work in the STEM industry. I know plenty of colleagues who are gay. Sure, there are the occasional people that titter and gossip, but frankly, they titter and gossip about everything and anything. The vast majority of the people I work with really don’t give a shit about other’s private lives. > > I just wonder if you are underestimating your colleagues’ ability to deal with your sexuality, and making yourself miserable in the process? Exactly. I am one of those middle aged white guys who are always responsible for keeping everyone down in some vague way. I’ve worked with gay and straight, male and female, black and white in a STEM industry for close to 30 years. While I’ve heard a few inappropriate comments over the years about all those groups, I can tell you, those few haters don’t get any traction in the workplace. Competence is all that matters to me and most of the people I’ve worked with. Of course, I can’t put myself in the shoes of a gay ethnic woman, it’s got to be scary to work where everyone is different from you. But if you are imagining all us white guys getting together to make fun of you behind your back - that is your imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/59 "2014-04-07T16:45:03Z")
> [@WeAimToPlease](#): > > Hi all, > > I thought I’d come back to update you all on the progress (if at all): > > I have come out to my departmental head at a New Years party. I hadn’t been planning to but he regaled a story about a man leaving the company because of homophobia once and he was sad to see the guy pushed out of the company because of his sexuality. To me, this signaled that whatever else may happen, I knew I would be ‘safe’ in his department. I think next New Year, assuming things go well, you should ask him if he suspected you were gay when he told you the story. If he says yes, thank him. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318/60 "2014-04-07T17:40:51Z")
It’s great when people come back and update with good news. I completely understand how easy it is to slip right back in the closet when you move, change jobs and find yourself right back at the beginning. Sucks. Straight people don’t realize how casually and frequently they make statements like, “my wife watches Mad Med…” or “my husband thinks that too…” and you’re supposed to come back with something similar, but for you it’s not such a casual thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-come-out-im-really-very-scared/675318.md?page=2)