# Please help me rebut this anti-muslim Email. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391 "2010-06-08T04:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/21 "2010-06-08T12:03:28Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Where were Muslims during World War II? They were aligned with Adolf Hitler. The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops and accepted support from the Nazi’s in killing Jews. If Muslims are bad because some were ‘aligned with Adolf Hitler’, what does that make Christians? One of whom even was Adolf Hitler. Either way, what others have already said. Not worth debating with this clown. Whether you report him to HR is up to you. In the absence of more details, I vote yes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/22 "2010-06-08T13:11:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is the Nation of Islam now considered Muslim on the boards? > > Regards, > Shodan Malcolm X left NoI in 1964 and subsequently became an orthodox Sunni Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/23 "2010-06-08T13:13:14Z")
Thanks for the responses guys. Now, that I’ve cooled off a bit I’ve decided to take the good advice of not debating with this guy. Not worth it. Still, I just don’t have it in me to turn him in to HR. (I can’t stop thinking about his kids) So I’m just going to tell him in person NOT to be sending me stuff like that. All that being said: Keep the rebutals coming. I find this thread to be very educational. And entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/24 "2010-06-08T15:01:26Z")
Yea don’t report to hr. Can’t believe how cut-throat some of you are to try and get somebody fired over one little email. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/25 "2010-06-08T15:06:13Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Still, I just don’t have it in me to turn him in to HR. (I can’t stop thinking about his kids) Maybe it’d be better for his kids for their dad to learn (possibly even the hard way) that his actions have consequences that affect his family. And maybe, just maybe, he’ll stop teaching prejudice. > [@](#): > > So I’m just going to tell him in person NOT to be sending me stuff like that. Sounds like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/26 "2010-06-08T15:31:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > 4.Point out that while he’s correct about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and that the Nazis did indeed have strong support in much of the Arab world, that equating the Arab nationalist community around WW II with Muslims as a whole is fallacious. Ah, well Arab World seems rather an exaggeration. As I’ve pointed out before, there was Nazi sympathy (or maybe better, German sympathy / anti-British antipathy) in the Mandate and Egypt; but on the flip side in the parts of the Arab World that were under Vichy French rule - i.e. close to the Germans - there was Allied sympathy. In fact, most of the Free French troops, according to the histories I’ve read, were North African Arabs (and West African Muslims). Captian: > [@](#): > > The guy who met with Adolf Hitler was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, not the “Muslim Grand Mufti”, and he was pretty much an anti-Semitic Fascist, and there were some Muslim units in the Bosnian SS, as well as pro-Nazi groups in the Middle East who were hoping for a German victory to kick out the British, like, in addition to the Grand Mufti, Rashad Ali, the Prime Minister of Iraq after his coup in 1941, but I don’t know if that reflects on the Muslim community as a whole. Seems to me to be rather situational, guys under Vichy rule ended up being anti, guys under British rule ended up being pro. I think that pretty much says that with maybe some exceptions, this was a “enemy of our particular colonizer is our friend” than anything like Nazi sympathies in general. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/27 "2010-06-08T15:40:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, he’s right that there were no Muslims who signed the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. There were a few Muslims who fought in the American Revolution…escaped or freed slaves for the most part. For instance, Peter Salem, the soldier at the Battle of Bunker Hill who is credited with shooting the British Marine commander Major Pitcairn was possibly Muslim. We know of a few more…Joseph Benhaley, Bampett Muhammed, and Francis and Joseph Saba were all enlisted men in either the Continental Army or the colonial militia. > > There was a slave in Georgia named Bilali Mohammed who participated in the War of 1812. Interestingly enough, when he died, he had in his possession one of the earliest recorded Muslim legal documents in America…a thirteen page treatise in Arabic on Muslim law. > > Regarding the Civil War, there were some Muslim Civil War soldiers; for instance a man named Max Hassan, an immigrant from Africa who served as a porter in the Union army. There was also a guy named Muhammed Said, a freed slave who fought in the 55th Massachusetts Colored Regiment. > > There was also, even though he might not count, Hi Jolly (Hajji Ali), who was a Bedouin from Jordan/Syria, who was brought over in the 1850s to manage the US Army Camel Corps, which was an attempt to use camels as mounts in the American Southwest. It failed utterly and he got involved in a bunch of other failed businesses, before signing back on as an army scout during the suppression of Geronimo and the Apaches. > > And, more generally, there were Muslim slaves, Muslim slave holders and Muslim slave traffickers. > > Regarding Muslim roles in the Civil Rights movement, there was of course, the quasi-Muslim Nation of Islam, and the Black Panthers, many of whom were Muslim. But most of the non-black Muslim community started coming here between the 1950s-70s, and were, as one might expect, more concerned with their own advancement than with social activism. > > The guy who met with Adolf Hitler was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, not the “Muslim Grand Mufti”, and he was pretty much an anti-Semitic Fascist, and there were some Muslim units in the Bosnian SS, as well as pro-Nazi groups in the Middle East who were hoping for a German victory to kick out the British, like, in addition to the Grand Mufti, Rashad Ali, the Prime Minister of Iraq after his coup in 1941, but I don’t know if that reflects on the Muslim community as a whole. This is a freakin’ amazing post. Exactly why I keep reading this board. Kudos to you, sir. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/28 "2010-06-08T15:46:38Z")
Xenophobia and religious hatred diatribes are pretty similar across nationalities and religions. A distant cousin (different g-g-mothers) once sent me something similar. I sent it back after I edited it to strikeout and replace ‘muslim’ with ‘irish’ (his g-g-mother), ‘koran’ with ‘Catholic bible’, ‘ayatollah’ with ‘pope’, ‘mecca’ with ‘vatican’ and so on. It read like something that might have been written in the 1850’s. Make it Italian and it works again. He never responded… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/29 "2010-06-08T15:53:31Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Yea don’t report to hr. Can’t believe how cut-throat some of you are to try and get somebody fired over one little email. Bet your ass I’d report him. That email is wildly inappropriate for a work environment, and his sending it shows stunningly bad judgment, and that’s two good reasons to report him even before we get to ‘he’s an asshole’. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/30 "2010-06-08T16:35:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is the Nation of Islam now considered Muslim on the boards? Malcolm X was a Sunni. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/31 "2010-06-08T16:53:43Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Thanks for the responses guys. > > Now, that I’ve cooled off a bit I’ve decided to take the good advice of not debating with this guy. Not worth it. > > Still, I just don’t have it in me to turn him in to HR. (I can’t stop thinking about his kids) > > So I’m just going to tell him in person NOT to be sending me stuff like that. > > All that being said: Keep the rebutals coming. I find this thread to be very educational. And entertaining. Let us know how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/32 "2010-06-08T17:21:30Z")
RE WWII, there were LOTS of Muslims in the all volunteer British Indian Army, from the Punjab, from the Frontier and from the State Forces. I am named after a man who was killed in Singapore. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/33 "2010-06-08T17:22:13Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Bet your ass I’d report him. That email is wildly inappropriate for a work environment, and his sending it shows stunningly bad judgment, and that’s two good reasons to report him even before we get to ‘he’s an asshole’. are you kidding me? Yeah it’s a bad email and judgement call on his part but come on give him a chance. I would tell him personally it was offending and a pretty stupid email in general and hopefully he gets the picture. Maybe not but at least I bet he wouldn’t be sending out those types of emails. There is no need to tattle on him for something like this that will likely result in him losing his job. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/34 "2010-06-08T17:24:27Z")
I wouldn’t report him to HR either at this point but it is really important that you document the event. Pull up the email and click forward and then copy and paste it with the time and date stamp and to and from email addresses that populate and print it out. Keep a copy in your drawer. Then the next time something like this happens you can take that email and whatever new hateful crap he sent and take it to HR at that time. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/35 "2010-06-08T17:27:39Z")
Give him a chance to what? Oh, keep his vile opinions to himself? That’s fair (no, really… that’s fair. Simply HAVING vile opinions isn’t a firable offense). Okay, how about “You send anything like that _again_, and I’ll report you. Oh and by the way, you’re an asshole.” ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/36 "2010-06-08T17:36:58Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Where were the Muslims during World War II? They were aligned with Adolf Hitler. The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops and accepted support from the Nazi’s in killing Jews.\* > > /End Email. The Muslims of Albania and the former Yugoslavia who fought like tigers against the Nazi occupation will be very surprised to here this. So would the Muslims of the former Soviet Union who paid in blood for the victory against the Nazi. I would ask this jerk if he every thought about that. And where does he think many of the Free French troops came from? From France’s colonial empire, places like Algeria? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/37 "2010-06-08T17:52:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The Muslims of Albania and the former Yugoslavia who fought like tigers against the Nazi occupation will be very surprised to here this. So would the Muslims of the former Soviet Union who paid in blood for the victory against the Nazi. I would ask this jerk if he every thought about that. And where does he think many of the Free French troops came from? From France’s colonial empire, places like Algeria? More generally, Muslim support for Nazi’s or Allies is kind of tangential to whether Islam was part of the “American Story”. Even if every Muslim to a man lined up behind the Nazi’s, I don’t really think that effects how relevant or not they were to American history (or it would make them more relevant, I guess, since fighting in a war against the US surely makes one more relevant to the American Story then sitting the war out). The writer of the email apparently just can’t resist getting an accusation of anti-semitism in, even if it doesn’t really have anything to do with his thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/38 "2010-06-08T18:08:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Why would it be doubtful? Islam was established in West Africa in the 8th century and by the middle ages much of West Africa was ruled over by powerful Islamic empires every bit as organized and established as the Christian states in Europe- empires that still have political and social relevance today. Because by the time of the American Civil War the vast majority of the African slaves were Americans. That being said, I asked for a cite because I was interested in the topic not that I doubted it was possible. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/39 "2010-06-08T18:31:38Z")
A few more cites: The [Turk of America First Turkish Settlers in America Project](http://www.turkofamerica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=163&Itemid=53) has some interesting info on Turkish immigrants to America between the Civil and First World Wars. Here’s a brief history of the building widely considered the official [first mosque in America](http://www.americanpilgrimage.com/blog/breaking-the-fast-at-americas-first-mosque), in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (yeah, Cedar Rapids, Iowa), dating from the 1930’s. Did you know that [the early 20th century saw a wave of immigrants from India’s Punjab region to California](http://www.sikhpioneers.org/cpma.html)? The Punjabi immigrants (mostly young laboring men) were called “Hindus” but were actually about 5/6 Sikhs and 1/6 Muslims. Intermarriage with Mexican women formed the early 20th-century “Punjabi Mexican” or “Mexican Hindu” communities of California: > [@](#): > > The women were almost all Catholic, but most marriage ceremonies were civil. The signatures of brides and grooms alike testify to a low level of literacy. Husbands and wives spoke to each other in rudimentary English or Spanish. Punjabi men learned Spanish to deal with Mexican agricultural laborers and to speak to their wives. Some Punjabi men adopted Spanish names or nicknames: Miguel for Magyar, Andreas for Inter, Mondo for Mohamed. […] > > How were children, given names like Maria Jesusita Singh, Jose Akbar Khan, and Armando Chand, socialized, and how did they think of themselves? […] Today, the Rasul family in Yuba City runs the only Mexican restaurant in California that features chicken curry and roti. I didn’t know **any** of this stuff, and it’s fascinating. Thank your co-worker for us, would you, **Shakes**? And thanks to **Captain Amazing** and all the other posters of cool information. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391/40 "2010-06-08T18:32:54Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Give him a chance to what? Oh, keep his vile opinions to himself? That’s fair (no, really… that’s fair. Simply HAVING vile opinions isn’t a firable offense). Okay, how about “You send anything like that _again_, and I’ll report you. Oh and by the way, you’re an asshole.” Yeah I could deal with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-rebut-this-anti-muslim-email/542391.md?page=3)