# Please help me understand the confusion over health exceptions to abortion bans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 17, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117 "2022-07-17T21:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/21 "2022-07-18T07:36:15Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > It seems to me that if hospitals and doctors are safe from prosecution, Texas (and the other states with similar bans) could easily make clarifying statements to that effect. So far they have not. This is not a bug. This is a feature. It’s deliberate on the part of these so-called moral warriors. They don’t _want_ to be clear. They want to _terrorize_ the people they see as opposing their righteous agenda. They want health-care providers, scientists (studying e.g. stem cells), activists (who would circulate information on how to get around the law), etc. _specifically_ to be fearful of the ambiguity, uncertain of the boundaries, wary of the powers and intentions of those charged with enforcement. If the line were drawn clearly — up to this point is legal, beyond this point is not — then that’s where activities would be carried out. But if the line is moveable and unfocused, then everyone will steer entirely clear of it, lest they fall afoul. This is why you’re seeing the hospitals etc. denying care and staying far away from anything that has even the possibility of being judged illegal under some squishy, ill-defined standard as applied by whichever activist authority wants to carry the torch. This is not seen as a problem to be cleared up. This is exactly what the anti-choice assholes _want_ to happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/22 "2022-07-18T11:07:34Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If you’re a doctor, not doing anything is the safest legal approach. My son-in-law is a doctor. A friend of his works/worked at a Texas Hospital ER. He originally looked into his insurance coverage and was disappointed with his coverage in potential cases involving a patient’s pregnancy. He initially refused to treat women of child bearing age, but then changed to refusing to see broad categories of patients that might lead to prosecution. The hospital pushed back, so he’s currently not working. He is looking into relocating to a less oppressive state. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/23 "2022-07-18T11:41:13Z")
All of this was predictable and predicted. Savita Halappanavar was killed by a similar legal regime in Ireland. Abortion was notionally legal when necessary to save the woman’s life, but there was no legislation saying _how_ that exception worked, and the penalties for an illegal abortion were severe. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/24 "2022-07-18T13:23:10Z")
I agree with everything you wrote and will just add one other facet – anti-abortion crusaders are cognitively incapable of seeing their crusade as anything less than one of unerring, unquestionable righteousness. They simply refuse to believe than an abortion could ever present an ethical dilemma and would rather bend reality than have to reconcile that in their minds. That’s why they push back so hard on pregnancy due to rapes – e.g. holding that a woman can’t get pregnant in a “legitimate rape,” claiming that the 10-year old who had an abortion in Indiana is a media fabrication, etc. Coming up with a real-world scheme to implement an abortion ban would force them to consider the morally complexity of abortion. And they simply won’t do it. Because the most important thing for them is maintaining the enormous righteousness erection that their moral certainty gives them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/25 "2022-07-18T13:37:18Z")
I haven’t seen much on another issue arising from the recent Supreme Court decision - that of prescribing drugs for a variety of medical conditions, that also have the potential to induce abortion. This has particular impact on patients with autoimmune diseases for which methotrexate has been a highly useful drug. "Kirchner raised some serious questions about the ability of rheumatologists to prescribe methotrexate in a post-_Roe_United States. “Will we need to somehow prove that every methotrexate prescription we write isn’t going to be used to induce abortion?” she said. “Will our ability to write prescriptions be hampered? Maybe just for certain populations, like perhaps women of childbearing age?” > **[‘Clearly already scared’: Rheumatology providers, patients brace for Roe v....](https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20220620/clearly-already-scared-rheumatology-providers-patients-brace-for-roe-v-wade-reversal)** > > The news that the Supreme Court may overturn Roe v. Wade sent a shockwave through all corners of the United States. > After reproductive health care providers and pregnant people, that shock may arguably be felt most acutely by patients with rheumatic... Use of other drugs may also be hampered due to fears of prosecution under anti-abortion laws. And we’ve already experienced the phenomenon of Conscience Pharmacists, who refuse to fill prescriptions for drugs if they think the purpose is to terminate a pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/26 "2022-07-18T13:45:05Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I agree with everything you wrote and will just add one other facet – anti-abortion crusaders are cognitively incapable of seeing their crusade as anything less than one of unerring, unquestionable righteousness. And let’s not forget [the good old (deliberate?) cognitive dissonance](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/right-want-change-definition-abortion-rcna38393). > [@](#): > > After initially avoiding the question, Foster eventually addressed the hypothetical: “I believe it would probably impact her life, and so, therefore, it would fall under any exception **and would not be an abortion**.” > > Swalwell, understandably confused, couldn’t let that go. “Wait,” the Democratic congressman said. “It would not be an abortion if a 10-year-old with her parents made the decision not to have a baby that was the result of a rape?” > > The CEO of a prominent anti-abortion group apparently did not misspeak. “If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, **then that’s not an abortion** ,” Foster testified. “Hey, if an abortion is morally complicated, then, hey presto, it’s not an abortion!” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/27 "2022-07-18T14:00:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …to put this as simply as possible: the anti-abortion folks who are insisting that the law clearly allows abortion to save the life of the pregnant person are gaslighting. If you just accept that they simply aren’t arguing in good faith, then it should become less confusing for you. This is correct. The anti-choice side is now simply lying about what they’ve done in order to deflect the blowback. We have the wife of Sen Josh Hawley [openly lying to Congress](https://www.salon.com/2022/07/14/ayanna-pressley-publicly-schools-josh-hawleys-wife-on-abortion-a-deficit-in-your-understanding/) by stating that ending an ectopic pregnancy “isn’t an abortion”. That’s false, and she knows it’s false, but she (and others) are trying to sow confusion about how they’re menacing the lives of patients and livelihoods of doctors. They want women to die as atonement for having sex. This country hates women more than any other minority. And women aren’t even in the minority! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/28 "2022-07-18T14:06:31Z")
They don’t hate women. They just think women should be owned by a single man who controls her sexuality. They like women just like they like nice houses and fancy cars. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/29 "2022-07-18T14:08:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They don’t hate women. They just think women should be owned by a single man who controls her sexuality. okay, well, they hate women who won’t conform to that regime (which is a large majority of women, by far). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/30 "2022-07-18T14:23:48Z")
> [@](#): > > “If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, **then that’s not an abortion** ,” Foster testified. This is absolute detachment from reality. Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/31 "2022-07-18T15:15:40Z")
At least she’s admitting that rape can result in pregnancy. That’s progress! > **[Republican Yesli Vega Slammed for Doubting Women Get Pregnant From Rape](https://www.newsweek.com/republican-yesli-vega-slammed-doubting-women-get-pregnant-rape-1719517?amp=1)** > > Vega, who is running for Congress in Virginia, said it wouldn't "surprise" her if women are less likely to become pregnant as a result of rape. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/32 "2022-07-18T15:46:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They don’t hate women. They just think women should be owned by a single man who controls her sexuality. They like women just like they like nice houses and fancy cars. But even that doesn’t make sense. If my fancy house or car needed repairs, I wouldn’t want the law telling me the repairs are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/33 "2022-07-18T16:06:10Z")
I think I just need to point something out in the interest of fairness. While there are, no doubt, plenty of misogynists in the pro-life movement, and plenty who think sex should be punished, I’ve certainly known some for whom the issue is a belief that personhood starts at conception. Even some sexually active, unmarried women I’ve known feel that way. Don’t think for a minute I’m defending pro-life positions. I’m as pro-sex and pro-choice as you’ll find. But we’re supposed to fight ignorance here, and that brush is just a little too broad (just a little, admittedly). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/34 "2022-07-18T16:11:35Z")
At this point I will make the same effort in distinguishing between anti-abortion flavors as they themselves make. They’re all misogynistic nutjobs. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/35 "2022-07-18T16:22:51Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > … the issue is a belief that personhood starts at conception. I’m willing to grant that there are people who believe this sincerely. But if they believe that the rights of a “person” gestating in a woman’s uterus are more important than the rights of the woman herself – even if it means legally prohibiting a medical procedure that’s necessary to protect the woman’s health, future fertility or even her life – then I vote for “misogynist nutjob.” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/36 "2022-07-18T17:09:48Z")
We’ve already got evidence in this very thread that some in the “pro-life” camp reconcile ‘All abortions are murder’ with ‘It’s obviously moral to terminate an ectopic pregnancy, or the pregnancy of a raped 10-year-old’ by re-classifying the latter as not abortions. There’s even [Catholic doctrine about ectopic pregnancies](https://www.catholic.com/qa/ectopic-pregnancy-and-double-effect). It’s obscene - it forbids a direct termination of the pregnancy, but allows for removing the Fallopian tube thereby unnecessarily harming the woman, because by removing the tube the intent is to save the mother rather than to kill the fetus (I know, I know, don’t even get me started) - but it at least allows for a timely medical intervention. At least some pro-lifers simply accept as gospel that all abortions are murder, and then do all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile this with situations where it leads to morally absurd results. You don’t necessarily need to posit misogyny to get to this sort of view, although there is certainly a large dose of systemic misogyny built into the Catholic and Evangelical religious views that underpin much of the dogmatic pro-life position, and moreover the end result has misogynistic impacts even if it is not motivated by conscious misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/37 "2022-07-18T17:23:31Z")
I think the clearest demonstration that Republicans have a specific strong desire that loose women should face punishment comes in their opposition to the HPV vaccine. There isn’t any unborn child around to complicate matters in this case. Their sole opposition is that by eliminating the threat of HPV, and by extension cervical cancer, women might feel safer having sex. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/38 "2022-07-18T17:53:13Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > We’ve already got evidence in this very thread that some in the “pro-life” camp reconcile ‘All abortions are murder’ with ‘It’s obviously moral to terminate an ectopic pregnancy, or the pregnancy of a raped 10-year-old’ by re-classifying the latter as not abortions. You know, if this camp is willing to allow pregnancy terminations in the case of rape, incest or to protect the mother’s health simply by saying those are not abortions, that’s a better situation than what currently exists in several states. It’s still evil and patently absurd, but that’s an upgrade over even-more-heinously evil and not absurd. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/39 "2022-07-18T18:11:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It’s obscene - it forbids a direct termination of the pregnancy, but allows for removing the Fallopian tube thereby unnecessarily harming the woman, because by removing the tube the intent is to save the mother rather than to kill the fetus (I know, I know, don’t even get me started) - but it at least allows for a timely medical intervention. I had no idea. It would almost be less obscene (IMO) if they just forbade any intervention. _I’m just punching the air, and if your nose happens to get in the way, well…_ ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117/40 "2022-07-18T18:18:26Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > It’s still evil and patently absurd, but that’s an upgrade over even-more-heinously evil and not absurd. Except that this particular absurd belief of theirs isn’t codified in the law. Of course, I’m sure that “Someone told me that _this_ abortion _wasn’t_ an abortion!” will be taken into consideration during the trial for murder [/sarcasm] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-help-me-understand-the-confusion-over-health-exceptions-to-abortion-bans/968117.md?page=3)