# Please learn how to use a stop sign **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689 "2003-03-24T03:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TeleTronOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4af34b/32.png) [@TeleTronOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeleTronOne)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/1 "2003-03-24T03:22:08Z")
Section 1. **To all the people who end up at the same intersections as me –** (a) \*\*4-WAY STOP SIGNS – \*\*While it would be nice if everyone knew by heart the section of the driver’s manual that dealt with these traffic instruments, nobody is perfect. However, there are a few things that should just go without saying when you find yourself at a crowded, 4-way intersection: (1) “Your turn” does not directly follow the turn of the car in front of you, you are supposed to wait for somebody else before you go. (2) When you are being a mindless jerk at one of these intersections, it is not appropriate to honk your horn at me, after you barely avoid running into my car because you don’t know what to do at a 4-way stop. (3) You are actually supposed to stop and look around at these things. If you find yourself arriving at a 4-way stop when there is nobody directly in front of you, please refrain from: (A) Going straight through the intersection after only a brief slowdown, the other people who have stopped at the intersection find this annoying. (B) Flashing your lights or waving at me. This is wholly unnecessary. I _KNOW_ I’m supposed to go next, I don’t need your fucking permission. (4) **Turn Signals –** (A) Please use them properly, or, at least; (B) simply use them. (b) **STOP SIGNS AT MINOR INTERSECTIONS –** When you find yourself in, say, a shopping center parking lot where there are numerous stop signs at various intersections – (1) The large, white letters painted on the hard-to-miss bright red sign say “STOP”. This does NOT mean: (A) Stop only if you really feel like it, with or without the following additional behaviour: (i) Making direct eye contact with me, or one of the other 15 drivers who need to suddenly veer out of your way when you disregard the stop sign; (ii) Obviously making a note of the sign as mentioned in paragraph (1), or the large, white line positioned directly in front of your car. (B) Stop briefly, and then entirely disregard any sort of traffic regulations that apply to stop signs; © Exhibiting any of the behavior as outlined in subsection (a). © **REPURCUSSIONS –** Continued disregard for any of the above grievances I have outlined above may result in one or more of the following: (1) I will shout vulgaraties in your specific direction, the content of which may consist of, but are not limited to: (A) Comments on your questionable parentage; (B) Suggestions that any of your past, present, or future matriarchal figures: (i) have engaged in sexual congress with – (I) Barnyard animals; (II) You; (III) Me; (IV) Farm implements; (V) Nothing at all. (ii) are of considerable carriage; (iii) are of below average intelligence. © Specific insults directed at you, which may include, but are not limited to: (i) cretin; (ii) mongoloid; (iii) cumstain; (iv) goat-humping bottom-dwelling sewer scum; (v) squirrel sympathizer. * * * Your adherence to these simple rules will save us all a lot of undue grief. Please don’t make me get subsection © on yer ass. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/2 "2003-03-24T03:27:44Z")
Traffic rant from a resident of Va.?! Please learn how to use outline format. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/3 "2003-03-24T03:28:54Z")
Preach it, sister! (Brother?) Add to this; a four way stop sign is a FOUR WAY stop. This does not mean you get to go through when the car coming in the opposite direction is going through. You have to wait for the car on his left, your right, to go. It isn’t an ark, it’s not a two-by-two intersection. If you don’t obey the rules, I will simply shout obscenities out the window at you. I don’t have the time or energy to worry about scoring style points. I will call you an asshole and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![TeleTronOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4af34b/32.png) [@TeleTronOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeleTronOne)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/4 "2003-03-24T03:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irae \* > \*\*Traffic rant from a resident of Va.?! Please learn how to use outline format. 😉 \*\* I had a heck of a time trying to get the thing to look right, I eventually just gave up. I blame it on my boiling rage. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/5 "2003-03-24T03:49:06Z")
S’okay. Just keep in on your side of the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/6 "2003-03-24T04:12:41Z")
whatever, i did not read any of that … just wanted to say that i do not stop, on stop signs unless i see cops. i just slow down a bit depending on how far i can see behind the corner. and if there are already cars on an all-way intersection when i get there - i quickly assess their eagerness to go first and if i sense hesitation, i just go first myself, i do not really care to know who has the RIGHT to go first 🙂 have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![TeleTronOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4af34b/32.png) [@TeleTronOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeleTronOne)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/7 "2003-03-24T04:15:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vasyachkin \* > \*\*whatever, i did not read any of that … just wanted to say that i do not stop, on stop signs unless i see cops. i just slow down a bit depending on how far i can see behind the corner. and if there are already cars on an all-way intersection when i get there - i quickly assess their eagerness to go first and if i sense hesitation, i just go first myself, i do not really care to know who has the RIGHT to go first 🙂 > > have a nice day. \*\* pursuant to subsection (c), you are a bastard cumstain of a squirrel sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![Zap\_Rowsdower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3da27b/32.png) [@Zap\_Rowsdower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zap_Rowsdower)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/8 "2003-03-24T04:20:31Z")
Also, when a traffic light turns red, there is no 3 second rule that allows you to run it anyway. The other light has turned green and cars have started to move. I no one person who recently had his car clipped because of some asswipe trying this. I try to look and start out slowly just in case, but if I forget, I do not want to be hit. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/9 "2003-03-24T05:10:01Z")
**vasyachkin** , I’ll be watching for you. Be forewarned, I’m in that middle part of life where I can afford to drive a big, heavy, fast car with all the airbags and insurance I need. I almost got one of your bretheren yesterday, but he had the good sense to chicken out. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/10 "2003-03-24T07:12:00Z")
Please see my pit post concerning this very topic 2 weeks ago… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=169619](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=169619) Sam ---
**Author:** ![bjohn13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@bjohn13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bjohn13)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/11 "2003-03-24T14:13:02Z")
The four-way-stop can, if used properly, be the most effecient of traffic control devices. If used improperly, it can be the most dangerous. My two largest beefs with driving are people who break the laws regarding the 4-way stop sign and people who break the laws regarding the left-hand turn signal. In the _North Dakota Rules of the Road Handbook_, here are the states rules regarding a 4-way stop: _note: this handbook is not the lawook in my state, rather a study guide for those with upcoming driving tests_ > [@](#): > > At any 4-way stop, all vehicles except emergency vehicles must come to a complete stop with the front bumper even with the stop line before proceeding. If no stop line is present, then a spot three feet on the drivers side of the crosswalk shall be deemed the stop line. If no stop line or crosswalk are present, then a spot even with the stop sign shall be deemed the stop line. > > The “right-of-way” at a 4-way stop shall be determined by who arrives at the stop sign first. If two vehicles stop at the stop sign at the same time, the vehicle to the right shall have the right of way. If two vehicles stop at the stop sign at the same time and they are across from each other, the right-of-way shall be determined in the following order with first taking precedence: 1) right hand turn 2) no turn 3) left hand turn. These are the rules in North Dakota. I think they should be changed to the rotational policy that was mentioned earlier in the thread. No one can seem to comprehend chronological order…would it be too much to ask them to learn right from left? When a person arrives at a 4-way stop, he should be very alert. It is important in states where order takes precedence to know exactly when you arrive at the stop sign. I always know when I come to my complete stop which cars are already stopped. It buggs me when someone goes out of turn because that means the effeciency of the traffic device has been disrupted. Yes, it can be difficult when there are four lanes coming from each direction, but my method is to count the stopped cars. Then I count the cars as they go. If there is a pause (meaning someone is unsure) before I reach my count, I inch forward and look for someone else to go. If no one else claims the right of way, I’ll take it. Furthermore, at less cogested 4-way stops, I’ll use hand signals to try to expedite the intersection more effeciently. If I am coming to a 4-way stop at the same time as someone on my right, I will always wave him/her through even if it appears that I may stop a split second soomer. If I am on the right and it appears as if the other driver is going to stop a split second sooner, I will sometimes wave him through letting him know that I am waiving the right of way. I do this only in situations where it is unclear who has the acual right of way because I wish to avoid driving confrontations. I do not use hand signals in any circumstance where another driver may mistake them. I also use hand signals for pedestrians. In my book, a pedestrian always has the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/12 "2003-03-24T23:48:41Z")
Is a four-way stop not the same as a four-way go? –A Zen koan ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/13 "2003-03-25T00:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LifeOnWry \* > **Add to this; a four way stop sign is a FOUR WAY stop. This does not mean you get to go through when the car coming in the opposite direction is going through. You have to wait for the car on his left, your right, to go. It isn’t an ark, it’s not a two-by-two intersection.** I’m fully aware that this approach to four-way stops is not in accordance the laws of California (or any state that I’m aware of), but I think it works pretty well in practice. Without having done any kind of scientific study, it’s my belief that this criminal behavior nearly doubles throughput in crowded conditions, without any serious downsides (save its illegality - just how big of a downside this is would be a matter of opinion). It’s the _de facto_ standard approach here in SoCal. I’ve got no beef with it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/14 "2003-03-25T15:56:22Z")
I agree, **brad**. If I’m at a 4-way stop, and the car opposite me is going straight or turning right, then I’m going when he is. Why make the people on the cross-street wait twice for the two of us to clear the intersection, when once is all that’s needed? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/15 "2003-03-25T16:45:25Z")
Well, because it’s the law. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/16 "2003-03-25T17:40:41Z")
Also, remember that people who are turning right have the right of way, all other things being equal, over people going straight, at least in my state. This means that if the person across from you is going straight and you decide to go, you might hit the person on your right who is also turning right. Sometimes it’s hard to see the right hand turn signal of a vehicle on your right, but you’d still be at fault. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/17 "2003-03-25T17:58:09Z")
By the way, the law says “RIGHT TURN ON RED **AFTER STOP.** ” Not, “right turn on red after you blow off the light and coast around the corner, running over the toes of the person about to cross in the pedestrian lain, who, by the way, has the right of way before you, thank you very much, you tiny penised asshair clump.” ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/18 "2003-03-25T18:15:40Z")
**vasyachkin** , you’re an idiot. I’ll never understand why, in a pit thread about bad driving habits, someone immediately comes in with a holier-than-thou attitude, proclaiming proudly that he/she does this exact thing, thank you very much. Aughh, NYC drivers. This is why I avoid the whole city… ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/19 "2003-03-25T19:45:48Z")
I assumed that Vasyachkin was being satirical. If s/he meant it, then s/he is an ignorant, arrogant pissant. ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689/20 "2003-03-25T22:03:14Z")
believe me, i am not even close to the worst driver out there. if you want to see the worst driving go to flatbush avenue ( black neighborhood in brooklyn where the cops will not venture most of time ). i only drove once on that street and i saw stuff like some lady backing up about a hundred feet ( to a parking space ) and using the oncoming traffic lane to steer around cars in heavy traffic. nobody honks though, and nobody cuts each other off … apparently you get shot for those things. i am not driving there again 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-how-to-use-a-stop-sign/163689.md?page=2)