# Please learn to use the subjunctive mood when appropriate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 31, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940 "2010-10-31T00:36:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/21 "2010-10-31T04:55:55Z")
> [@Serenata67](#): > > I don’t want to be the grammar police… But as the Princess of the Bananahamock can’t you at least chastise those who run afoul with this? Surely they’ll listen to _you_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/22 "2010-10-31T07:55:43Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > I’m sure someone, somewhere has already declared the subjunctive defunct. . That was the point of my previous post. Some English majors my age are already being taught that the subjunctive in English no longer spelled any different than the indicative. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/23 "2010-10-31T08:16:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That was the point of my previous post. Some English majors my age are already being taught that the subjunctive in English no longer spelled any different than the indicative. And some of them accidentally a word out. ---
**Author:** ![KinkiNipponTourist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e9bcb4/32.png) [@KinkiNipponTourist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinkiNipponTourist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/24 "2010-10-31T12:28:01Z")
I was an English major, but all we did was read novels. Where are English majors being taught grammar? Or am I misunderstanding something here? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/25 "2010-10-31T18:25:10Z")
> [@dzero](#): > > Aside from the problem of determining for certain what forms most people use, I don’t think grammatical rules do or even should reflect the usage of the majority of speakers. Then you aren’t talking about grammar, you’re talking about usage. Grammar doesn’t obey ‘should’ any more than physics. Don’t worry: You’re not alone in not knowing the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/26 "2010-10-31T20:32:06Z")
Where’s **nametag**? A friend of mine recently mentioned on her facebook page that her eight-year-old daughter had asked her “mommy, if I was a cocaine dealer, how much prison time would I get”? I promptly replied that I was shocked and appalled that something so reprehensible could come out of a child’s mouth, and that it should be correctly phrased as “if I _were_ a cocaine dealer.” The mother agreed with me and said that she would have a talk with the child’s teacher at her earliest convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/27 "2010-10-31T21:27:01Z")
Although I can never remember that it is called the subjunctive mood, this is one of my grammar pet peeves. Unfortunately, I see it everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/28 "2010-11-01T00:20:25Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Where’s **nametag**? > > A friend of mine recently mentioned on her facebook page that her eight-year-old daughter had asked her “mommy, if I was a cocaine dealer, how much prison time would I get”? I promptly replied that I was shocked and appalled that something so reprehensible could come out of a child’s mouth, and that it should be correctly phrased as “if I _were_ a cocaine dealer.” The mother agreed with me and said that she would have a talk with the child’s teacher at her earliest convenience. Nothing could demonstrate more clearly how important it is to speak well - regardless of one’s career choices. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/29 "2010-11-01T01:50:11Z")
For me “irregardless” and “I should have went,” are the ones that really suck canal water. I’m an engineer, for God’s sake, but, even so, I couldn’t bring myself to say,“I wish I was in Dixie.” ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/30 "2010-11-01T17:12:57Z")
I’m right here; in case anyone’s wondering why **Washoe** is wondering where I’ve wandered off to, it’s because of posts like [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4583543&postcount=5). For those not willing to click the link, I’ll summarize; **Guizot** ’s post above describes the _first subjunctive_, used in sentences and phrases which express the result of a command, order, wish, or desire, and sometimes to express some uncertainty. It takes the form of a naked infinitive: “The court ordered that he be hung by the neck until he is dead.” Most people who speak of the subjunctive, as in the OP, are thinking of the _second subjunctive_, used to describe a condition which is contrary to fact; it takes the form of the third person plural past tense: “If I were you, I’d stick with the indicative mood.” The terms “past subjunctive” and “present subjunctive” are odious; both of the examples given above are present tense. When describing a condition lying entirely in a hypothetical past, one says: “If it hadn’t been for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college.” I think, though I have no cite, that this is a present perfect tense with the auxiliary verb in the subjunctive mood; in Romance languages, I believe this is called the pluperfect subjunctive, but I’m barely literate in Spanish, and it takes me hours to conjugate a single verb in Latin, so take that for what it’s worth. I’m pretty sure we don’t call it that in English. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/31 "2010-11-02T02:37:37Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > How do you feel about “The Way I Are”? Instead of “The way we be”? DZERO, I wish you was on this board before. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/32 "2010-11-02T02:41:31Z")
Can’t we get everyone to stop saying “continue on” first? PLEASE???PLEASE??? I"M BEGGING NOW. And if I’m still fighting the less/fewer battle, which is way easier and simpler than this, I’m pretty sure you’re going to be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/33 "2010-11-02T03:09:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Instead of “The way we be”? > DZERO, I wish you was on this board before. Hmmm. Whoosh, or non-whoosh. It’s so hard to tell. Repeated calls to dzero’s office were not returned (no they wasn’t). > [@Stoid](#): > > Can’t we get everyone to stop saying “continue on” first? PLEASE???PLEASE??? I"M BEGGING NOW. > > And if I’m still fighting the less/fewer battle, which is way easier and simpler than this, I’m pretty sure you’re going to be disappointed. Yes, but I expect disappointment - otherwise, my continued survival would indeed be nothing short of miraculous. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/34 "2010-11-02T03:59:13Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > …When describing a condition lying entirely in a hypothetical past, one says: “If it hadn’t been for my horse, I wouldn’t have spent that year in college.” … Many people will express past hypotheticals in this way: _If you would’ve felt better, you could’ve joined us_. (Rather than: _If you had felt better, you could’ve joined us_.) Is it just my imagination, or is this becoming more and more accepted? I hear people use it on the radio, etc., all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/35 "2010-11-02T19:34:42Z")
I’ve mentioned this before, but in England, the subjunctive has disappeared. I discovered this when a book I coauthored was copy-edited in England and there were several dozen places with the copy-editor misunderstood the 3rd person present singular as an incorrect plural and requested that we change it to singular. Example: “She requested that he change it” and she (I always imagined it was a she) wanted to change “change” to “changes”. We refused and she didn’t pursue it. (We provided camera-ready copy, so had the final say.) At any rate, I think it is a dead issue. Since both authors were born in 1937 and the copy-editor was likely born in 1960, it might also have been an age issue. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/36 "2010-11-02T22:02:43Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > For me “irregardless” and “I should have went,” are the ones that really suck canal water. _cough_ I think you mean “I should of went”. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/37 "2010-11-02T23:56:17Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > _cough_ I think you mean “I should of went”. Wait. You’re kidding, right? Because this is the other recent development that is completely freaking me out: writing “of” where “have” belongs…So you’re just pointing out that this is a freakazoid thing that’s been happening lately…right??? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/38 "2010-11-03T00:16:32Z")
I have enough trouble in my life to have to worry about this shit! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/39 "2010-11-03T00:44:38Z")
So don’t worry about it. Seriously, if it’s important, somebody will take care of it. Just curious; what convention is being abused by the careless use of “myself?” As in: “Anyone who finds the item in question should just give it to Mr. Smith or myself.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940/40 "2010-11-03T02:10:12Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > … in Romance languages, I believe this is called the pluperfect subjunctive, but I’m barely literate in Spanish, and it takes me hours to conjugate a single verb in Latin, so take that for what it’s worth. I’m pretty sure we don’t call it that in English. The exact Spanish name of that form in Spanish is “pretérito pluscuamperfecto del subjuntivo”, so the literal translation would be “pluperfect subjunctive (past)”, so apparently you’re remembering correctly. We say the “past” or “present” or “future” because the simple and perfect forms come in all three, so since you’re specifying for those two, you specify for all of them (helps memorize the whole shebang). In French, the subjunctive and conditional modes are separate, and that form is the “passé composé du conditionel”, “perfect conditional (past)”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-learn-to-use-the-subjunctive-mood-when-appropriate/558940.md?page=3)