# Please post here if you are NOT interested in science fiction or fantasy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2008, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682 "2008-09-15T10:03:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/101 "2008-09-18T06:43:29Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Hell, two-thirds of the same writing team that came up with steampunk (Powers & Blaylock–the third was Jeter) also published a cookbook in which one recipe is for haggis cooked in a pair of Sigmund Freud’s trousers. Yeah. And, uh, that is pretty silly, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/102 "2008-09-18T13:01:38Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Speaking as a former Borders employee, I must step in and explain that African-American Literature is in a seperate section due to massive customer demand. A lot of customers want to pop right in and find a section for African-American writers talking about African-American topics, and, in fact, a lot of those same customers (who were very excited about the material) even suggested more…_vulgar_ names for the section. I have no problem with there being a separate section for African American Literature, or any other specialty section based on the author’s “identity”. But if a mystery author happens to be African-American, or gay, or lesbian, why should their books be in that section? I know several SF authors who are African-American, gay, or lesbian; should I have to leave the SF section to look for their books? ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/103 "2008-09-18T16:05:03Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Yeah. And, uh, that is pretty silly, isn’t it? Do _not_ let William Ashbless know you wrote that. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/104 "2008-09-18T20:05:45Z")
> [@Jello](#): > > Yep. But the libraries here beat the last two systems I was stuck with, so it all evens out. You know that big funky-looking one by IKEA? Used to be open until 10 PM every day. Now it almost seems like no library can afford to be open for more than a few hours a day, thanks to City Council sucking up all the money for their pension funds. Such a shame. > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > It may be that the referenced thread was doomed to be sci-fi/fantasy heavy because of the word “awesome.” To me, “awesome” implies awakening my inner twelve year old. Cool battle scenes, very simplistic good guy/bad guy showdowns, etc… I dunno, I expected “When Jules said, 'English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!”, not “When Captain Picard almost told off the Romulans” (or whatever). > [@LurkMeister](#): > > But if a mystery author happens to be African-American, or gay, or lesbian, why should their books be in that section? Because that’s where they’ll sell, I assume. IME, notable crossover attempts often get premium placement on endcaps or in those little racks in the front of the store with a little caption that says, “Hey look! That guy who usually only writes about X is writing about Y now? Isn’t that cool? You should buy it!” Beyond that, it’s a nice ideal that every single book will be shelved in exactly the spot that you find to be the most PC, but it’s going to go where they think it will sell. Of course, if you complain, you might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and forces them to move the book to what you consider the appropriate section. You never know, right? It’s all about pleasing the customer, so I say don’t hesitate to make your objections known to a manager when they come up. > [@LurkMeister](#): > > I know several SF authors who are African-American, gay, or lesbian; should I have to leave the SF section to look for their books? Well, again IME, it’s not so much about their identity as what they tend to write about. James Baldwin tended to write about issues facing African-Americans and/or the LGBT community, so those books are going to go in those sections. Isaac Asimov isn’t going to be shelved in the “Eastern Europe” section any time soon, because he wrote about colonized planets and such. OTOH, if someone wrote 15 novels about living in Russia and then popped out a sci-fi book, that one might very well go in that hypothetical section, because that’s where people are looking for his name. Or not–I’m no expert on sales BP. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/105 "2008-09-18T20:14:26Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > I dunno, I expected “When Jules said, 'English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!”, not “When Captain Picard almost told off the Romulans” (or whatever). So…did you post the Pulp Fiction reference in that thread? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/106 "2008-09-18T20:22:05Z")
I always try to read a thread in its entirety before posting to it. By the time I got to the thread, the first several posts were all about Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc., and none of it sounded very awesome. I wrote the thread off as a failure and walked away, because I couldn’t get through it without boring myself to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/107 "2008-09-18T20:33:05Z")
I don’t want to pound on you for this, **Hostile Dialect** , because you’re not the only person who’s said something like that in this thread, but if there isn’t enough non-sci-fi/fantasy content in general-subject CS threads, it’s not our fault. It’s yours (generic you). If a thread has mostly sci-fi/fantasy references, it’s because the people who would prefer to see references from other genres haven’t posted any. I do not want to be held accountable for someone else’s laziness. If having posts about non-sci-fi/fantasy in general-subject threads is so important to the people who find sci-fi/fantasy “childish”, then maybe they should be posting their own references in those threads. Because what is the solution, otherwise? The sci-fi/fantasy fans should be forbidden to post about sci-fi/fantasy? Or maybe there should be a maximum quota on sci-fi/fantasy posts? There’s a good way to stimulate discussion! Quit freaking whining and post about the subjects you want to read about. And stop blaming other people for being interested in different things than you are. (Again, generic “you”, not specifically directed (only) at **Hostile Dialect** ) (Incidentally, in case of tldr moments, if you click on the Edit menu, then “Find”, then put in (in your example) “Jules”, your browser will tell you whether or not your quote (and probably Pulp Fiction, period) has been mentioned on that page.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/108 "2008-09-18T20:43:23Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > In grown-up entertainment, the highest quality stuff is very rarely going to be classified as awesome. Consider two pitched battles and how you would describe them. The Star Trek TNG finale with the advanced Enterprise decloaking was clearly awesome. Or whatever large-scale Star Wars battle you prefer. Compare those to storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan. Awesome is not a word I’d use to describe that scene. Gut-wrenching, powerful, severe, brutal; any number of words come to mind, but not awesome. > > IMO, awesome implies a lack of nuance, which in turn earns the “childish” label from me. Oddly enough, one of my chief complaints with _Saving Private Ryan_ as a whole is a lack of nuance. That said, I agree that the Normandy scene isn’t “awesome” in the way that blowing up the Death Star is “awesome.” But that’s because it wasn’t trying to be awesome, at least, not in the sense meant in that thread. The “Crowning Moment of Awesome” is meant to be a triumphant conclusion to the arc of either a story, or a particular character. The storming of the beach at Normandy comes at the very beginning of the film, and there’s no real sense of the characters at that point. Plus, the soldiers hitting the beach are mostly green recruits facing their first major action, so the scene plays up the horror and confusion of the landing, which are incompatable with the “Fuck yeah!” response an awesome scene is going for. By contrast, compare it with the scene at the end of the film, where a wounded Tom Hanks faces down a German tank armed only with a pistol. That’s classic Crowning Moment of Awesome material right there. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/109 "2008-09-18T21:20:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > if there isn’t enough non-sci-fi/fantasy content in general-subject CS threads, it’s not our fault Sure, that’s all well and good. Me, I don’t spend much time in CS and see no need to fight an uphill battle to change the forum entirely when I’m not even going to reap the rewards very often. Don’t blame me for not wanting to jump into a thread about sci-fi television series–and yes, that is what it was about long before I even found the thread. I don’t blame anyone for being interested in things I’m not, and I’m starting to wonder why you’re taking this all so personally. What crawled up your ass and died? > [@jayjay](#): > > (Incidentally, in case of tldr moments, if you click on the Edit menu, then “Find”, then put in (in your > example) “Jules”, your browser will tell you whether or not your quote (and probably Pulp Fiction, period) has been > mentioned on that page.) Don’t patronize me. I decided not to participate in a thread because it was all about sci-fi TV, which I’m not interested in. You say that’s not your fault, but now it’s _my_ fault? Whatever. I don’t have the time or inclination to wade through 25 posts about Babylon 5 every time I click “View Last Unread Post” just to get to the one post I find interesting. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/110 "2008-09-18T21:50:41Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Don’t patronize me. I decided not to participate in a thread because it was all about sci-fi TV, which I’m not > interested in. You say that’s not your fault, but now it’s _my_ fault? Whatever. I don’t have the time or > inclination to wade through 25 posts about Babylon 5 every time I click “View Last Unread Post” just to get to the one > post I find interesting. Believe it or not, that wasn’t intended to be patronizing. I honestly thought that you weren’t aware of that from what you were saying. As to what crawled up my ass and died, I’m seeing a lot of people basically complaining that there are too many threads and posts about science fiction and fantasy. So do the complainers have a solution for that? Something other than complaining about it? The way to have more non-science-fiction and non-fantasy threads and posts within genre-unspecified threads is to POST THEM. Not to complain about the people who like those genres, or about the prevalence of those genres on this message board. Complaining about those things is roughly equivalent to saying “the solution to this problem is for people not to post about those things” instead of “the solution to this problem is for people who don’t want to read about those things to post about other things that they DO want to read about.” ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/111 "2008-09-18T21:54:16Z")
Actually, complaining about it is just that: complaining. Any further ulterior motive you assign to it says more about your insecurities than about everyone else’s intolerance. The fact is that the culture of CS is overwhelmingly in favor of mainstream sci-fi and fantasy and most other stuff gets ignored. This is a fact. Stating this fact is not tantamount to stuffing you in a locker. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/112 "2008-09-18T23:18:09Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I have no problem with there being a separate section for African American Literature, or any other specialty section based on the author’s “identity”. But if a mystery author happens to be African-American, or gay, or lesbian, why should their books be in that section? I know several SF authors who are African-American, gay, or lesbian; should I have to leave the SF section to look for their books? In many cases these decisions are going to be strongly influenced by the book’s publisher. If a book is published by under a science-fiction imprint like Tor Books, marketed by its publisher as a science-fiction novel, or described as science-fiction in _Publisher’s Weekly_ or _Library Journal_, it’s almost certainly going in the science-fiction section. Neither librarians nor bookstore managers sit down and read each book to decide where it fits best. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a library that split out “Gay & Lesbian Fiction”, although there may be ones that do. I don’t have any bookstore experience (except as a customer) so I don’t really know how they make these decisions, but I suspect they’d ask themselves something like “Is this book more gay, or more sci-fi?” How well-known the author is, and what people are likely to associate with their name, are probably factors as well. To take one example, I’d say that most libraries and bookstores would place Rita Mae Brown’s mystery novels in the “Mystery” section. In a library, her [_Rubyfruit Jungle_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubyfruit_Jungle) is likely to be classed as general fiction while a bookstore might put the same book in “Gay & Lesbian” instead. I just verified online that this is indeed the case at my local public. ---
**Author:** ![Sojourner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Sojourner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sojourner)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/113 "2008-09-19T00:08:00Z")
My reply to the sports analogy: All sports require public physical exertion. I highly dislike public physical exertion. Therefore, I dislike all sports. Understood? Genre-defining has /always/ been a subject fraught with difficulty. It is quite probable that any genre definition you come up with can be countered with an unusual example that is nevertheless considered to be part of that genre. Final note on Doctor Who, Torchwood, et cetera: these are examples of an enormous group of works which have all the trappings of “science fiction” yet seem to have neglected the “science” part of the name altogether. Any other objections have already been voiced by more eloquent posters, at least for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/114 "2008-09-19T01:07:56Z")
> [@Sojourner](#): > > My reply to the sports analogy: All sports require public physical exertion. I highly dislike public physical exertion. Therefore, I dislike all sports. Ever seen a baseball game? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/115 "2008-09-19T01:10:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oddly enough, one of my chief complaints with _Saving Private Ryan_ as a whole is a lack of nuance. Agreed absolutely. I am aware (and was when I submitted) that that post was poorly constructed and possible self-contradictory. I’m not sure how to convey what I meant, so I just threw stuff out there and hoped. It appears you got the general gist of what I was going for. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/116 "2008-09-19T01:30:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The way to have more non-science-fiction and non-fantasy threads and posts within genre-unspecified threads is to POST THEM. Not to complain about the people who like those genres, or about the prevalence of those genres on this message board. Complaining about those things is roughly equivalent to saying “the solution to this problem is for people not to post about those things” instead of “the solution to this problem is for people who don’t want to read about those things to post about other things that they DO want to read about.” I like to participate in the threads I post in. I try (not always, but most of the time) to read the entire thread before posting. I try and read posts after mine for as long as the topic stays active. The problem with a lot of Cafe Society threads that start as a general thread is they get hijacked - best quotes becomes best quotes in SF/Fantasy. I’m not willing to make the commitment to that thread to read the whole thing, contribute, and follow through. I do post CS threads about things I’m specifically interested in, and we had some lovely discussions on the Complete Jane Austen presented by Masterpiece on PBS earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/117 "2008-09-19T15:17:34Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Are you sure you haven’t been whooshed? It’s not like you’re exactly _supposed_ to take it seriously; you should approach it as a light-hearted take on magic realism…except that rather than magic-become-real, it’s science-gone-gonzo. I said “silly” instead of “stupid” because I didn’t feel like hearing a bunch of people try to defend it, but really, I meant “stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![Valerieblaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@Valerieblaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valerieblaise)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/118 "2008-09-19T17:37:37Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I like to participate in the threads I post in. I try (not always, but most of the time) to read the entire thread before posting. I try and read posts after mine for as long as the topic stays active. > > The problem with a lot of Cafe Society threads that start as a general thread is they get hijacked - best quotes becomes best quotes in SF/Fantasy. I’m not willing to make the commitment to that thread to read the whole thing, contribute, and follow through. > > I do post CS threads about things I’m specifically interested in, and we had some lovely discussions on the Complete Jane Austen presented by Masterpiece on PBS earlier this year. This sums up my feelings fairly well. Cafe Society has the potential to be my favorite forum, but I find that some of the threads that interest me become so bogged down with “Buffy” and “Star Trek: The Next Generation” quotes & examples (those are just the first examples to spring to mind - I’m irritated by most SciFi tv & movies as well) that dragging it back to the more generic topic would be impossible. Would it be out of line for someone to title a thread, say, “Best Non-Sci-Fi Quotes?” I think that if someone DID that for the sake of indulging those of us that want to talk about their favorite Alec Baldwin moment from “30 Rock” or the “Fuck Fucking-A Motherfucker” scene from “The Wire,” the Sci-Fi fans would post ANYWAY, either saying they shouldn’t be excluded or not reading the whole title/OP and just posting as quickly as they can because God knows everyone needs to be reminded how clever Joss Whedon’s dialogue is at least every 4 hours. Then there’s my absolute favorite, “I know the title said no Sci-Fi, but…” It seems to me that no matter WHAT the OP, once the Sci-Fi madness starts, it drowns out the rest of the conversation. If anyone would like an illustration of my point, please re-read this entire thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/119 "2008-09-19T22:05:37Z")
> [@Valerieblaise](#): > > If anyone would like an illustration of my point, please re-read this entire thread. Wins the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sojourner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Sojourner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sojourner)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682/120 "2008-09-19T22:19:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Ever seen a baseball game? Running. And baseball is \*further \*verboten because it falls into the subcategory of “sports that involve projectiles”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-post-here-if-you-are-not-interested-in-science-fiction-or-fantasy/463682.md?page=5)