# Please put Noddy and Big Ears in context for the thick American. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430 "2011-11-29T07:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/41 "2011-11-30T17:00:30Z")
We (in the US) actually have a Noddy & Big Ears children’s book. I had no idea it wasn’t American, although I’d never heard of them otherwise. It’s certainly not my favorite among children’s books. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/42 "2011-11-30T17:08:46Z")
While we’re all enjoying a nostalgic glow, apart from loving the Famous Five and the Secret Seven, I used to actually cry with laughter reading the Jennings and Derbyshire books by Buckridge ? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/43 "2011-11-30T17:22:30Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > While we’re all enjoying a nostalgic glow, apart from loving the Famous Five and the Secret Seven, I used to actually cry with laughter reading the Jennings and Derbyshire books by Buckridge ? Jennings! Holy crap, I had forgotten they existed. Yes, I can honestly say that tears would run down my face I laughed so hard at those books. I was about 10 or so, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/44 "2011-11-30T20:04:31Z")
> [@Hogfather65](#): > > The Fraggles?? > [@MrDibble](#): > > 😕 No, [Portland Bill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Portland_Bill). In the UK, they filmed their own “Doc and Sprocket” sequences for _Fraggle Rock_ where it was set in a lighthouse with [the Captain](http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/The_Captain). Conceptually, very similar to Portland Bill. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/45 "2011-11-30T22:00:29Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > The Famous Five were a different kettle of fish- ideal for kids starting to read on their own. Simple words and structure but great adventures with the children (and Timmie the dog) beating the criminals all on their own. Adults as only minor walk on parts! Hmmm…for that I remember enjoying Clifford B. Hicks’ Alvin Fernald series of books in elementary school. Kid inventor and his sister & friends outwitting various adults and their plots. Disney made a couple movies based on the stories. Awww…looking him up in Wikipedia, I see he (Hicks) passed less than a year ago. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/46 "2011-11-30T22:01:21Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Some things catch on everywhere, other things don’t. The thing about US culture is that since TV became ubiquitous, **everybody in the world** hears about American stuff, even if they don’t experience it. I heard of Nancy Drew and knew what it was about even though I didn’t see any of the books when I was a kid myself, because of references from US TV shows. So even the US stuff that doesn’t catch on overseas is still likely to be known about in a general way. We get the cultural references even when we don’t get the cultural artefacts themselves. But it goes the other way too–I grew up reading about Blue Peter, Norfolk jackets, _The Water Babies_, meat pies, and all sorts of mysterious British things that I had no idea what they were. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/47 "2011-11-30T22:19:41Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > While we’re all enjoying a nostalgic glow, apart from loving the Famous Five and the Secret Seven, I used to actually cry with laughter reading the Jennings and Derbyshire books by Buckridge ? Oh totally! But this ought to be another thread. We have already hi-jacked this one from Noddy to Blyton in general. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/48 "2011-11-30T22:27:02Z")
Hey, I said “Put them in context.” If you want to discuss other Blytons, or other books/series/characters in general, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/49 "2011-11-30T22:38:50Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > But it goes the other way too–I grew up reading about Blue Peter, Norfolk jackets, _The Water Babies_, meat pies, and all sorts of mysterious British things that I had no idea what they were. How can you not get what a meat pie is? It’s a pie; it has meat in it. The clue’s in the name! Man, how the US exists without the deliciousness of steak-and-ale or chicken-and-mushroom pies, I’ll never know! Gorgeous! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/50 "2011-11-30T22:42:13Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > While we’re all enjoying a nostalgic glow, apart from loving the Famous Five and the Secret Seven, I used to actually cry with laughter reading the Jennings and Derbyshire books by Buckridge ? Oh God, yes. Just looked them up, and there a couple written in the 1990s!! I read them in the 70s, wonder how they stand up today? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/51 "2011-11-30T23:11:07Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > How can you not get what a meat pie is? It’s a pie; it has meat in it. The clue’s in the name! > > Man, how the US exists without the deliciousness of steak-and-ale or chicken-and-mushroom pies, I’ll never know! Gorgeous! I know, but…meat? in a pie? How can that be? Oh, and pasties. What the heck are those? And Yorkshire pudding? Not to mention the weirdest thing of all, mint jelly. Oh, and suet, what the heck is that? Treacle? Britain is full of weird food if you’re a California kid. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/52 "2011-11-30T23:19:52Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > I know, but…meat? in a pie? How can that be? Oh, and pasties. What the heck are those? And Yorkshire pudding? Not to mention the weirdest thing of all, mint jelly. Oh, and suet, what the heck is that? Treacle? > > Britain is full of weird food if you’re a California kid. That’s OK. You eat weird shit to us. Not to mention the way you torture drinks by mixing them together like a kid with crayons and then giving them a cutesy name. Yuck! 🙂 For the record, a steak and ale pie is delicious. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/53 "2011-12-01T00:07:32Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > I know, but…meat? in a pie? How can that be? Where I grew up, meat was all that ever came in any pie, except for apple pies. And we called those meat pies “mince pies” because they were mince meat. Whereas in the UK mince pies are fruit, made specifically for Christmas. So that, mixed with the US never even knowing meat pies hardly at all, completely bamboozled me. Great. Now I’m [hungry](http://mcgregorsbakery.co.nz/mcgregors-famous-pies.html). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/54 "2011-12-01T00:08:12Z")
The other significant characters in Noddy are the Goblins. They’re the ones who cause all the trouble; they get away with a mild scolding most of the time even though some of the stuff they do really is extremely horrible. Even in the recent TV series, they’re actually a little bit scary. Blyton’s stories were hugely popular and still are. Walk into any major bookshop in London and you’ll see racks of Blyton books. The Five-Find-Outers stories (aimed at kids from about 6 years old) are harder to find. My daughter, at 13, actually wants the Mallory Towers books to re-read for Christmas (hers got eaten by the dog). Sadly there are no Kindle editions, though there are Kindle editions of some new Mallory Towers stories written by someone else - they look OK. There have been tons of other ‘updates’ of the Famous Five, too - like [this Disney one](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-540056/Gosh-Look-Disneys-Enid-Blytons-Famous-Five.html). The Faraway Tree series has been bowdlerised a lot, including changing the names of the characters Dick and Fanny. Some of the other series have been changed to a lesser extent, though you can find the originals easily enough too. In real life in the UK you’ll often hear references to ‘lashings of Gingerbeer’ and ‘Five Go Mad in…’ and it’d be rare to find someone who didn’t know who the Famous Five or Noddy and Big-Ears were. Ruth Rendell probably never referenced who she was talking about because she’d have assumed her readers knew, and anyway it sounds clear from context that she was a children’s writer. The[Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Blyton) on Blyton is really well-done. Here’s some stats from it: Blyton’s books have sold more than 600 million copies In the decade from 2000 she was still in the Top Ten authors, selling 7,910,758 copies worth £31.2m in the UK alone. More than a million Famous Five books are sold worldwide each year. Her books have been translated into more than 90 different languages. The Magic Faraway Tree was voted no. 66 in the BBC’s Big Read. In the 2008 Costa Book Awards, Enid Blyton was voted the best-loved author, ahead of Roald Dahl, JK Rowling and Shakespeare. 753 titles credited to her over a 45 year career with an average of 16 titles published per year. I’m pretty sure I’ve read every single one of those 753 books - she was kinda a hero of mine as a child. And I totally identified with George. > [@Shakester](#): > > I’m currently in the process of (re)reading the Famous Five, just finished the 18th book yesterday, only 3 more to go. > > The kids certainly do age through the course of the books, about 4 years over the course of the 21 books. Which is unrealistic, but not particularly. > > The prejudices of the day are there, in that foreigners are generally considered suspicious and are quite often Up To No Good. But there are also sympathetic non-British characters, too. The antagonists are usually working class and are occasionally described as “common”, but there are also plenty of salt-of-the-earth workers who are portrayed very sympathetically. There are also middle-class or upper-class antagonists, too, though they’re a lot rarer. > > “Gypsies” and travelling carnies and the like are villains in a few of the books, but the children thereof are portrayed positively and one of them, Jo, is a recurring character and a sort of honorary FF member. > > So that’s the bad stuff. The good stuff: Blyton is a _much_ better writer than her critics give her credit for. Yes, the books all follow a formula, but within that formula and over the course of many books she manages to keep the interest level pretty high, and even if you know exactly what’s coming (and as an adult I do, but the target audience might not) getting there is still exciting and interesting. > > Blyton doesn’t write down to her audience, either. She is sympathetic to the children she writes about (and the children she writes for), and their struggles with the adult world. Obviously the Five are examples of “good kids” and intended to be emulated, but they are also flawed. One thing Blyton does _very_ well is depict the casual nastiness of children - and I think that’s one of the main reasons she’s considered un-PC nowadays. > > However - and this is a mark of good writing - as the stories unfold it often becomes apparent that the nastiness is wrong. And Blyton doesn’t telegraph it, she manages to get the point across in a subtle way. I find that highly admirable in a children’s author. She doesn’t treat her readers as stupid; she expects them to be able to work it out for themselves. > > What a lot of parents nowadays want for their children is “safe” entertainment that requires no thought, analysis, or discussion. Plonk your kids in front of the TV or fob them off with a book that keeps 'em quiet. Well, there’s a bit too much to discuss when it comes to Blyton. The sexism **is** an issue. Poor Anne _is_ expected to serve her brothers, and accepts her womanly work happily. But then we have George, the girl who _refuses_ to act like a girl and to accept that biology=destiny. > > That sort of thing gets a child _thinking_. And that’s a good opportunity for a parent to _interact_ with a child. > > Don’t write off Blyton, there’s a lot of value to be found in her books. They’re artefacts of another age, for sure, but that makes them _more_ valuable, not less. Good post. The isms in Blyton’s stories are mostly not that bad (with the exception of the River of Adventure, set on the Nile with lots of horrid black people with alarmingly toothy smiles - I reread that a few years ago and was hard going) and it’s better to admit that those isms used to be so acceptable than to whitewash the past. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/55 "2011-12-01T01:24:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Where I grew up, meat was all that ever came in any pie, except for apple pies. And we called those meat pies “mince pies” because they were mince meat. Whereas in the UK mince pies are fruit, made specifically for Christmas. > > So that, mixed with the US never even knowing meat pies hardly at all, completely bamboozled me. 😃 To confuse you even more, I recently learned that once upon a time, mincemeat pie was pretty much The American Pie. It had meat and dried fruit and, I expect, plenty of liquor. These days no one makes them, and ‘mince’ means fruit stuff you get in a jar that no one actually buys, but my grandfather used to like them. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/56 "2011-12-01T07:43:08Z")
American here, and I remember reading as many _Adventure_ books as I could get from the library in the fourth grade. At least, I think they’re the same books. I remember _Island of Adventure_, though my strongest memory is from _Castle of Adventure_. The parrot kept repeating, “Musty, dusty, fusty.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/57 "2011-12-01T08:29:07Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > In the UK, they filmed their own “Doc and Sprocket” sequences for _Fraggle Rock_ where it was set in a lighthouse with [the Captain](http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/The_Captain). Conceptually, very similar to Portland Bill. Aaah, I see. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/58 "2011-12-01T08:36:37Z")
oooh, I remembered a cute tangential Famous Five reference - the Housemartins’ [Five Get Over Excited](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su-Ta9tYv3Q) (a reference to such twee titles as “Five Have A Wonderful Time”) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/59 "2011-12-01T14:40:26Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > There have been tons of other ‘updates’ of the Famous Five, too - like [this Disney one](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-540056/Gosh-Look-Disneys-Enid-Blytons-Famous-Five.html). OMG that’s horrible! Is there anything Disney can’t ruin? And George had a kid, huh? Who woulda thunk it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430/60 "2011-12-01T21:08:59Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > OMG that’s horrible! Is there anything Disney can’t ruin? > > And George had a kid, huh? Who woulda thunk it? 🙂 I’ve read a biography of Enid Blyton and seen a couple of telly programmes. By all accounts she was tomboyish all her life and put a lot of herself in George. Nonetheless she was married twice with two children from the first. Blyton was deeply scarred by the breakdown of her parent’s marriage. After her father left the family home nothing was actually explained to young Enid and she was forbidden to mention her father’s absence to anyone (which meant no inviting friends home among other things). For the rest of her life she had great difficulty facing up to any kind of unpleasantness – the upside of which appears to be her great talent for writing escapism. Mind you accounts of Blyton’s personality are contentious as two of the major sources, her daughters, have radically different views of their mother – the younger, Imogen claiming that she was about six before she finally realised that the woman in charge of handing out servant’s wages and children’s pocket money was her actual mother! One of her books I would like to reread is the Land of Far Beyond, her take on Pilgrim’s Progress. This almost forgotten book from the 1940s features the journey of contemporary adults and children, who must carry the burdens of their sins on their backs, as they travel through an allegorical landscape full of temptations that cause many of them to fall by the wayside. It made a huge impression on me as a child and I wonder how it would appear to me now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-put-noddy-and-big-ears-in-context-for-the-thick-american/604430.md?page=4)