I’m pretty strict on hijacks in focused threads. We have a nice selection of kamala-harris threads, that I was riding herd on 4 of them for a while to keep them on topic. Same with the Ukraine Breaking News thread, more than half of us are using that thread as a major news aggregate for specifically updates on the war.
I can see and support the DNC thread being held to the tighter standard. I wasn’t doing it, but it makes sense that thread should be about the DNC and not loads of other topic only related to it in so far that it was about Dems or Harris or people running against Harris.
Honestly, if more posters would simply post a “hey, this is a hijack, let’s get back on track before mods step in”, it would really help. Instead, people flag it right away and force the mods to jump in.
Mods have already stated that gentle reminder posts by us aren’t necessarily junior modding. Us stepping in instead of running crying to mods would really be helpful.
I will state that I am probably one of those who is “quick to flag as a hijack.” And I will also say that I frequently get a response from the mods along the lines of, “I don’t think it’s really a hijack,” or “it’s a natural evolution of the thread conversation, I’m not going to step in.” And that’s absolutely OK with me; it’s up to the mods to decide when (and in which threads) a hijack is becoming an issue.
From my personal experience, the mods do not intervene simply because someone has flagged a post or series of posts.
We could indicate in the thread title something like "This Thread only, Experimental suspension of the hijack rule, but let’s see if we can voluntarily avoid egregious tangents"
Or we could have a new threat “General Discussion of whatever you want, Hijacks welcome”
This is such an important point. We don’t strictly moderate all P&E threads. But if a thread is narrowly focused and there have already been several mod notes to stop hijacking it, such as the one that is the subject of this ATMB thread (6 times before closing), then maybe pay attention to hijacks.
I always try to let a thread right itself before stepping in about hijacks. But when a thread is repeatedly hijacked and numerous mod notes have issued, we really have few options other than to start with formal warnings or close the thread. I am a fan of neither. But I also dislike having mod notes ignored.
I think part of the issue is where the off-topic line is drawn? It is not always crystal clear.
I got a gentle mod-note for posting about Trump’s response to Shapiro at the convention. That seemed relevant to me but I was told (nicely) it was off-topic.
I accepted it and now know better. But I’d say it was an easy mistake to make which is why @Aspenglow was repeatedly reminding people.
Believe me, we get that. It is an easy mistake to make and I do it myself!
I try hard to not be heavy-handed with people who make a genuine mistake. But there were a few hijacks in that thread that were clearly, unequivocally off topic. In one instance, the poster even acknowledged it was a hijack – as if that made it ok (it doesn’t).
Thanks for acknowledging we do try to keep things on track with the least invasive methods. At least, to start. And again, we only strictly moderate narrowly-focused threads.
How was it decided by whom that hijacks are such a problem that (some) mods have to be as active as they feel they need to be? Or that threads need to be kept narrowly focussed, spawning numerous off shoots.
Apparently some number of folk frequently whine about what they consider to be hijacks. Do they outnumber the folk who would happily tolerate some degree of hijacking? Or are the complainers’ opinions weighted more heavily?
I welcome a moderated board, and I know this is far from a democracy. But I’m not at all convinced that the problem is at all as severe as some mods wish to present it.
ISTM that only certain threads, in certain subfora, get tightly moderated to prevent hijacks. As already noted by the mods in this discussion, right now, that tends to be a handful of tightly-focused topics in P&E, and on Breaking News threads in MPSIMS. I tend to appreciate that level of attention and curation by the mods, to keep those threads (most of which tend to be fast-moving) from meandering and falling away from the actual topic.
I suppose I have seen moderator notes that seem a bit exasperated, but those seem to be in cases where a thread has repeatedly gotten hijacked in a short period of time, and/or when particular posters come across as determined to take the conversation off-topic.
There’s also the example of the panoply of different threads on Trump’s various trials, where I’ve seen a lot of posters making posts about news items that are related to Trump, but not related at all to the particular trial in question in that thread. There, too, I appreciate the mods’ efforts to keep those conversations focused.
I’m not really moved to spend much time defending against a post that is so poisoned from the outset with characterizations about “whining” and “complainers’”, but I’ll spend a little time on it.
It was decided by the community before I became a mod, so perhaps one of the Elders will step in to answer your question on that. During my time, at each point it has been discussed with an open solicitation for opinions from the community, the preference for more strict moderation for hijacks in GD/P&E runs about 65% in favor, 35% against.
No one’s opinion is “weighted more heavily” than someone else’s. That’s why we often ignore flags about hijacks and also allow them to run on for a period of time. This has been stated numerous times. But the opinions of those who “would happily tolerate some degree of hijacking” aren’t more heavily weighted, either. The community as a whole has expressed a preference for more strict hijack control, so we keep at it.
Not all moderators moderate in forums that require concerns around hijacks. You’re aware we’re assigned to specific forums, and we try to stay out of each other’s forums, right? I doubt you could find any moderation by me about hijacking in any thread that’s not in GD/P&E, and mostly P&E. @engineer_comp_geek for example never moderates in GD/P&E, and he rarely if ever has need to moderate for hijacks in his forums. @What_Exit and I are the moderators who are most available to moderate in GD/P&E, so you see us moderate for them a lot more than other mods.
You’re right. It’s not a democracy. But we do try to do what the Community as a whole prefers.
I agree. There seem to be so many more threads now that are minor riffs on the same topic and I sometimes find it difficult to decide where something should go.
Further, this is a community and not an Oxford style debate with rigid rules. More discussions over the dinner table. Especially as a discussion gets older what is being talked about will drift a bit which seems ok. What’s worse is being crucified for a minor aside which hardly seems worth its own thread but something that the poster was reminded of (I have been aggressively moderated and threatened for doing that once).
It kinda wants me to put all things in the BBQ Pit now to avoid that.
I used to do that, and we had some very fine, spirited discussions in the Pit about politics without concerns around language used or hijacking or anything else. In my opinion, the Pit is underutilized.
It seems like most of us appreciate hijacks being kept in check. I just think we should encourage fellow posters to speak up politely in a thread that’s being hijacked before flagging a mod.
Maybe you missed this gem (which was concluded to most everyone’s satisfaction).
The change came from former mod Jonathan Chance (with Ed’s approval), who tightened up the rules in GD and P&E in response to numerous complaints that the forums weren’t really functioning as they should be, with one of the major forum problems being hijacks. This was not a change that our current mods made.
I don’t participate much in GD and P&E, but from what I saw the changes were largely appreciated and were, in general, considered a major improvement for those forums.
Jonathan’s revised rules for GD are summarized in this post from January of 2020:
P&E basically follows the same rules.
Many of those rules had been in place before then, but some rules, such as clamping down on hijacks and making thrice-told-tales off limits, were new.
Those wishing to get rid of the rule on hijacks are basically asking for things to return to the way they were before Jonathan made those changes, and return to all of the problems that those changes were designed to fix.
I don’t participate much in those forums, but going back to the way they were seems like a huge mistake to me. Jonathan made those changes for good reasons, and those asking to reverse those changes seem to be ignoring those reasons.
I’m just curious, you’ve been around long enough to remember TubaDiva and Lynn were very snarky. They really make us look like kittens trying to growl by comparison.
If I recall correctly the link was from one of the busiest times in P&E’s history. I know I was overwhelmed by the the series of the Debate, the Ear Wound and Biden stepping aside for Harris combined with the who would be her VP pick.
