# Please recommend dystopian novels. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451 "2009-08-05T19:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/61 "2009-08-09T04:48:26Z")
> [@infinitii](#): > > Also, as far as I remember, everyone was completely satisfied and happy with life, no one had any unfulfilled needs, and everyone felt useful. Dystopia? It’s a much subtler dystopia than _Nineteen-Eighty Four._ The latter is based on pure sadomasochism: The whole English Socialist system exists just so the Inner Party members can enjoy the sense of real power that can come only from making others suffer. In _Brave New World,_ there is no exploiting class or caste as such – the Alphas and the World Controllers just work at their jobs like everybody else – and no systemic cruelty. Universal plenty and pleasure and contentment have been achieved for all, but at the price of freedom and individuality – also, at the price of progress; the World State, high-tech as it is, is reluctant to allow any further technological or social change of any kind. Presumably everything would be exactly the same a thousand years hence. (Granted, there have been many **real** human societies, such as ancient Sparta, and the Roman Empire, and China and India for most of their histories, based on exactly the idea that perfection has already been achieved and any change is _ipso facto_ bad.) I recommend S.M. Stirling’s [_Domination of the Draka_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domination_of_the_Draka) series – a much **less** subtle dystopia, but more frightening because it is more plausible. Plus, Stirling writes more vivid combat scenes than any SF writer I’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/62 "2009-08-09T11:06:43Z")
Possibly because Stirling is a combat veteran himself. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/63 "2009-08-10T21:44:06Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I hope you have more fun with Never Let Me Go than I did. I gave up a few chapters in when absolutely nothing had happened up until that point. > > On the other hand, I love Oryx and Crake and Jennifer Government. Part of what I enjoyed about NLMG was the slow pace. When things finally come to light, it all seems so believable, because nothing just pops up and goes bang. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/64 "2009-08-10T21:46:03Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Part of what I enjoyed about NLMG was the slow pace. When things finally come to light, it all seems so believable, because nothing just pops up and goes bang. I just finished it and thought it was kind of meh. It did shock me when I realized what was going on, but then it just seemed kind of dull again. I’m thinking of starting a thread about it, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/65 "2009-08-11T15:41:51Z")
> **[Never Let Me Go (spoilers)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527642)** > > In the dystopian novel thread, we were talking about this book quite a bit. So I figured I’d just start a thread about it. First reaction. Does anyone else want to mutilate the hell out of Ruth? Okay, okay, that’s probably already been done, but... Here’s my Never Let Me Go thread. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/66 "2009-08-11T17:19:49Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > I kind of love John Brunner’s _Stand on Zanzibar_, which is sort of urban/overpopulation-induced dystopia. Old-fashioned (e.g., computers the size of a room) but great, if horribly depressing. Ooh, yeah. Correct on all points – an excellent novel that’s frightening, believable, and _very_ depressing. _The Sheep Look Up_, also by Brunner, is another grim vision of the near future – a future where so many man-made chemical toxins (both long- and short-acting) have been disseminated into the environment and the population that most rainfall has become poisonous, species extinctions occur faster than pop music fads come and go, most of a generation is being born defective, sickly and hyper-allergic … and shit looks like it’s only going to get worse. Both of those novels ride the sharp edge of the thin line separating sci-fi and horror fiction until that edge cuts the reader right to the tailbone. ---
**Author:** ![krisolov](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krisolov/32/3724_2.png) [@krisolov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krisolov)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/67 "2009-08-11T18:28:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Possibly because Stirling is a combat veteran himself. I’m not sure where you get this from. I’ve seen no indication that Stirling was ever in the military at all. I agree, he writes some detailed and , occasionally gory fight scenes and I enjoy his books, but he’s no combat veteran. Perhaps you’re thinking of David Drake, a Viet Nam vet? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/68 "2009-08-11T19:07:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I recommend S.M. Stirling’s [_Domination of the Draka_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domination_of_the_Draka) series – a much **less** subtle dystopia, but more frightening because it is more plausible. Ha. Ha ha ha. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Ha. _wipes tears_ Thanks,\*\* BG\*\*, I needed a laugh. I don’t think Stirling fans know how ridiculous that series of Marty-Stu-isms looks to someone who’s actually lived under apartheid. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/69 "2009-08-11T19:18:51Z")
Just finished _Join Me!_ by Danny Wallace, a mostly-true and very funny story about how he decides to start a collective (“It’s not a cult!” he’s constantly explaining) on a lark, all the while trying to keep his long-suffering Norwegian girlfriend from finding out. Wallace is a Brit with a very dry, understated sense of humor; you can almost imagine him telling the tale in a dimly-lit pub over a pint. I recommend it. And now I see it might be made into a movie… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/70 "2009-08-11T19:26:48Z")
> [@The New and Improved Superman](#): > > For other suggestions, how about “the Futurological Convention” by Stanislaw Lem? One of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/71 "2009-08-11T19:27:52Z")
Ignore my post #69. Wrong thread. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/72 "2009-08-11T19:31:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I recommend S.M. Stirling’s [_Domination of the Draka_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domination_of_the_Draka) series – a much **less** subtle dystopia, but more frightening because it is more plausible. Plus, Stirling writes more vivid combat scenes than any SF writer I’ve ever read. Plausible? Don’t get me wrong, I read them all and they were a good, but disturbing read. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen an author’s thumb so blatantly unbalancing the scales. The re-issue with the extra covering story showing the Draka universe as only the 1 in a hugenumber of universes were everything happened to go the Draka’s way doesn’t make it any better. ---
**Author:** ![krisolov](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krisolov/32/3724_2.png) [@krisolov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krisolov)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/73 "2009-08-12T00:44:01Z")
I _hate_ the Draka series. The real stinker of the lot. I enjoy popcorn action SF plenty, and Stirling is otherwise pretty reliable for that. I read one, and it was just way too heavy handed. I wonder, has there been a thread on rotten series’ by otherwise decent authors? I gotta imagine Piers Anthony would figure high on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/74 "2009-08-12T02:16:05Z")
> [@krisolov](#): > > I wonder, has there been a thread on rotten series’ by otherwise decent authors? I gotta imagine Piers Anthony would figure high on that list. I think he’d be disqualified under the “otherwise decent” clause. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/75 "2009-08-12T12:31:18Z")
> [@krisolov](#): > > I _hate_ the Draka series. The real stinker of the lot. I enjoy popcorn action SF plenty, and Stirling is otherwise pretty reliable for that. > > I read one, and it was just way too heavy handed. > > I wonder, has there been a thread on rotten series’ by otherwise decent authors? I gotta imagine Piers Anthony would figure high on that list. I’m with you on this. Unlike some around here :dubious: I really enjoy Stirling’s books - I know they’re not high art but they’re fun. The Draka series was not fun ☹ ps For those who are interested, the next in his Emberverse Sunrise Lands series, _The Sword of the Lady_, is available from 24 August. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/76 "2009-08-12T16:40:20Z")
[Woman on the edge of time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_on_the_Edge_of_Time)is not a classic dystopian novel, but a … disturbing one about the future, and what goals are good and not. I didn’t really like it, but it’s a classic. [The fifth sacred thing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fifth_Sacred_Thing)by Starhawk is very very new-ageish (pagans and wicca-witchcraft and communing with the Earth and the Spirits stuff), and has one dystopian society and one hippie-community in conflict with each other. It does end happily, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451/77 "2009-08-13T01:28:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Ha. Ha ha ha. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Ha. > > _wipes tears_ > > Thanks,\*\* BG\*\*, I needed a laugh. > > I don’t think Stirling fans know how ridiculous that series of Marty-Stu-isms looks to someone who’s actually lived under apartheid. More plausible than _BNW_ because it requires us to imagine nothing **new,** save the combination of chattel slavery with high technology; everything else in the Domination Universe has ample historical precedent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-dystopian-novels/505451.md?page=3)