# Please recommend some Zappa! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 8, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521 "2005-03-08T12:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/1 "2005-03-08T12:58:50Z")
My SO recently mentioned seeing a Frank Zappa CD at Best Buy and almost buying it because he used to really dig Frank. I’ve decided to get him at least one CD for his birthday, which is coming up next month. I’m not familiar with Mr. Zappa’s work myself, although I have a biography of him in my to-read pile. So, what album would be a good gift for someone who already likes his stuff, and what album would you recommend to someone who is just beginning to listen? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/2 "2005-03-08T13:07:39Z")
I think the best album I’ve heard is _Hot Rats_. I’m on a Zappa kick right now and I wish I had that one. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/3 "2005-03-08T13:12:44Z")
Hm. My favorite three would probably be Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation, Joe’s Garage, or Freak Out. They’re all pretty beginner-friendly. I like Sheik Yerbouti a lot, too. I don’t think I’d make a huge distinction between the two categories in the OP. If it’s somebody who’s already into it, just make sure you don’t get something they already have. 😉 Most of the Zappa fans I know are **huge** collectors and pretty difficult to find stuff for–they’ll already have most of the easily-found stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/4 "2005-03-08T13:28:58Z")
My first exposure to Zappa was the compilation _Strictly Commercial_, which, as its title implies, contains more mainstream, easily-accessible songs (mostly in a rock vein). However, the original album by Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, \*Freak Out \* (a major influence on Paul McCartney in the creation of _Sgt. Pepper_), would also be a good “jumping-on point” for a new Zappa fan. The man has done so much in so many diverse genres, and some of his albums might be a little disconcerting for the casual or new listener. Once you’re both eased in more and know some of Zappa’s songs, I must recommend the many _You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore_ 2-CD live albums. Sheer brilliance, with some of the best musicians of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/5 "2005-03-08T13:30:10Z")
A second shout our for _Apostrophe_. I still use the phrase ‘The crux of the biscuit’ on a regular basis. And Lady Chance has picked it up from me. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/6 "2005-03-08T13:36:44Z")
**We’re Only In It for the Money** is still a brilliant work, though certainly not a mature one. **Hot Rats** is also great. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/7 "2005-03-08T16:38:57Z")
Hardcore Zappa fan checking in. Get the first album on this list that he doesn’t already have: Roxy & Elsewhere Hot Rats Joe’s Garage Them or Us Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation (You shouldn’t get one without the other.) You Are What You Is One Size Fits All Zoot Allures Unless you know for a fact he preferred the old-school Mother of Invention stuff, which is much less popular and a completely different feel. If so, get the first album on this list that he doesn’t already have: Just Another Band From LA Chunga’s Revenge Fillmore East, June 1971 Absolutely Free Freak Out We’re Only In It for The Money ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/8 "2005-03-08T16:48:36Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > what album would you recommend to someone who is just beginning to listen? Missed this. The best introductory albums to listen to would be, in order: Joe’s Garage Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation Them or Us You Are What You Is Zappa’s best two releases were Roxy & Elsewhere and Hot Rats. Neither is a particularly good introductory album. I would recommend listening to his other excellent works first before trying those two out. Their greatness can’t be fully appreciated until you have a feeling for his music in general. Also, if he already has the albums in my previous post, ask for more suggestions. There’s over 50 albums to choose from. I can continue ranking them for you ad nauseum. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/9 "2005-03-08T16:58:15Z")
I think he lost his collection in the divorce, so I should do well with just about anything. Looks like the front runners are Joe’s Garage, Hot Rats, Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, and Freak Out. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/10 "2005-03-08T17:01:08Z")
One more vote for **Joe’s Garage**. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/11 "2005-03-08T17:54:16Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > You Are What You Is Dang, forgot all about that one. Definitely seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Hoops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoops/32/6408_2.png) [@Hoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoops)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/12 "2005-03-08T19:32:21Z")
Apostrophe and Them Or Us are good choices. But I would really recommend One Size Fits All as Zappa’s most consistent and rewarding work: it features what many would say is his best band and is funny without being cruel, partisan, or scatological, as some of his other work can be. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/13 "2005-03-08T19:48:40Z")
So, uh…he’s like, a novelty song writer? Like Weird Al? Ouch! Ouch! Hey! Okay, y’all…indoctrinate me! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/14 "2005-03-08T22:14:09Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > So, uh…he’s like, a novelty song writer? Like Weird Al? No. He’s about as difficult to describe as any musician I know of because he did so many different things. He did write some songs that are funny, but he did classical music, he did some rock stuff, studio weirdness, jazz fusion, doo-wop… I’m not saying he was influenced by all those things. I mean he wrote and played in each of those idioms, among others. It makes it kinda hard to pick a representative album. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/15 "2005-03-08T22:18:47Z")
None of ya’ll got any love for _Burnt Weeny Sandwich_? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/16 "2005-03-09T01:28:34Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > So, uh…he’s like, a novelty song writer? Like Weird Al? His humor differs from Weird Al in that 1) he actually knew how to wrote a song and 2) he was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/17 "2005-03-09T02:00:51Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > His humor differs from Weird Al in that 1) he actually knew how to wrote a song and 2) he was funny. Other than that, and Zappa being an excellent guitarist who surrounded himself with talented musicians and not a one-trick pony, they’re pretty much the same. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/18 "2005-03-09T03:19:59Z")
It’s amazing how widely the opinions of FZ’s different works can range. If Stravinsky was a rocker, and peppered his compositions with toilet humor, you’d have some idea what FZ was about. He was first and foremost a brilliant composer, and many of his compositions will live on, and be studied, for many years to come. I’m with **Hoops** on _One Size Fits All_ being a great entry into FZ’s work. I disagree pretty strongly with **Ellis Dee** on the old school stuff, in that I think it’s important to distinguish between the first albums and what I think of as “Phase 2”, which featured Flo and Eddie and was far more scatological. I would recommend _We’re Only In It For The Money_ as the most accessible of the first bunch, and would be hard-pressed to recommend any of the second bunch (for instance Just Another Band From LA, Fillmore East, parts of Chunga’s Revenge) to anyone but a true hard-core fan. (This in spite of my singing “Billy the Mountain” in the college dorm showers for years. 😃 ) As incredibly important as _Freak Out_ is, historically, I disagree that it represents a good entry point into FZ’s work. It’s simply too extreme. To respond to the OP’s questions: **For someone who already likes his stuff:** Hot Rats We’re Only In It For The Money (sometimes issued in combination with Lumpy Gravy) The Grand Wazoo Roxy & Elsewhere (alternate: You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore #2, the Helsinki Concert) Lather Make a Jazz Noise Here **For a newbie:** One Size Fits All Apostrophe’/Overnight Sensation Them or Us The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life Joe’s Garage ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/19 "2005-03-13T00:35:02Z")
> [@Kilvert's Pagan](#): > > I’m with **Hoops** on _One Size Fits All_ being a great entry into FZ’s work. You’d think so, wouldn’t you? I knew a guy who asked me IRL basically the exact same question as the OP, so I lent him my copies of Hot Rats and One Size Fits All, thinking basically the exact same thing as you guys. That was on a Friday, and Monday morning when I asked him what he thought, he handed them back in pretty much disgust. He commented that Hot Rats “wasn’t bad”, and then got a weird expression on his face (like he stepped on a bug or something) and asked, very tentatively, “What, exactly, _is_ a Pojama Person?” I chuckled and said something along the lines of “I don’t know, but I’m guessing they bored you to pieces by your reaction.” So, I’ve learned that, sadly, no matter how much I like it, OSFA is not a great intro album. It was probably not even one of the first ten I ever heard, so I don’t know how I would have reacted had it been my first exposure. I probably would have hated Inca Roads and Andy, despite the blasphemy that is that statement. More importantly though, I felt I completely wasted Hot Rats on him. If I’d hooked him with Joe’s Garage, then let him hear Them Or Us and Apostrophe, he would haven thought Hot Rats was the greatest thing he ever heard. Being his first exposure, I think he equated it with elevator music. Such a shame. > [@](#): > > I disagree pretty strongly with **Ellis Dee** on the old school stuff, in that I think it’s important to distinguish between the first albums and what I think of as “Phase 2”, which featured Flo and Eddie and was far more scatological. Oh, I agree completely. But of Zappa’s three major styles, the two early ones were both less popular and more niche work than the late 70s material. I didn’t feel the need to split them into their appropriate categories in this thread. But I agree they are completely different. I would also suggest that **Absolutely Free** is far superior to WOIIFTM, but I can accept that I may be in the minority on that one. > [@](#): > > To respond to the OP’s questions: > **For someone who already likes his stuff:** > Hot Rats > We’re Only In It For The Money (sometimes issued in combination with Lumpy Gravy) > The Grand Wazoo > Roxy & Elsewhere (alternate: You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore #2, the Helsinki Concert) > Lather > Make a Jazz Noise Here No way on MAJNH, and the Helsinki concert should not be heard until Roxy is fully enjoyed. As far as WOIIFTM, if I lost all 40 of my CDs and all my mp3s, and my SO were going to surprise me with a shiny new Zappa CD, and it turned out to be We’re Only In It For The Money, I’d be greatly disappointed. That begs the question, what would I want? The answer would be any one of: Roxy & Elsewhere Joe’s Garage You Are What You Is Them Or Us YCDTOSA 2 or 3 Läther > [@](#): > > **For a newbie:** > One Size Fits All > Apostrophe’/Overnight Sensation > Them or Us > The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life > Joe’s Garage Definitely not TBBYNHIYL, but agreed on the others. ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521/20 "2005-03-13T01:17:00Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > You’d think so, wouldn’t you? … :major snip: … > Definitely not TBBYNHIYL, but agreed on the others. A thoughtful and well-reasoned response from clearly a great FZ fan. I doff my hat, sir. Re: MAJNH and TBBYNHIYL: I think I have a warm spot in my heart for the '88 tour - both because I witnessed it firsthand, and because I’m such a Mike Keneally fan. (I get to see him this Tuesday!) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-recommend-some-zappa/293521.md?page=2)