# Please Stop Giving "Legal Advice" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575 "2002-06-17T20:08:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/21 "2002-06-18T17:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BottledBlondJeanie \* > **Max Texas Tech, hmmm are you interested in moving to Dallas or Austin? To me, copyright = intellectual property and there are some good firms with mucho mula in those cities.** Lord, yes. I’ll go anywhere in this state where I can find work. Well, within reason; I wouldn’t move to Podunk, but then again, I doubt they’d have much IP work to do there. If you have good advice or know about firms interested in hiring a greenhorn, by all means, email me! ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/22 "2002-06-18T18:15:15Z")
A quick search on Westlaw yielded the info that the Committee on Professional Ethics and Grievances of the American Bar Association in Formal Opinion No. 85 and Pennsylvania opnion PA Eth. Op. 86-97 state that “legal advice” should only be given out by lawyers…the Pennsylvania opnion states that an individual who has even taken the bar but is waiting on his results is still not allowed to give out legal advice… I can’t quote them 'cause I pulled them off Westlaw. The Texas Rules of Professional Conduct and assorted cases/opnions indicate that a non-lawyer law student must be supervised by an attorney in his/her law-related activities… Sometimes a disclaimer can be enough, sometimes not…it all comes down to the very nebulous definition (as **Jodi** mentioned of “practicing law.” So, **Res** quoting a case is fine as I mentioned but when you start interpreting it or a rule in a non-hypothetical situation you come close to “practincing law.” My understanding of this would lead me to believe that debates regarding laws and whatnot is fine, but if there’s a real-life situation/question, it’s best for a law student to refrain. As far as your issue re clergy and whatnot, I don’t think there are ethical restraints on discussing that type of stuff, there are here. On many bar applications, I think there’s a portion where you have to state you have not engagred in the unethical practice of law–I would hate for someone to have to think carefulyy before stating “no.” And \*\* Max \*\* try Sidley & Austin… ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/23 "2002-06-18T18:48:07Z")
\*\* Res \*\* Seems you need to be reminded what your status is, too. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=121027) you give no disclaimer that you aren’t a lawyer, but then discuss what to do in an actual case. You use the term “negligence.” Whose? Hers or the driver’s? I think you mean the driver’s but then you throw out some other possibilities. Where do you get that chances are there’s no law dealing with injury to dogs? Are you familiar with this type of law? And what about court–where do you get off tellign her what to bring to court. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU’RE RIGHT–this is NOT a hypothetical situation–it’s a real-life case. Ask your law professsors if your “opinion” is acceptable for a law student to be giving to someone. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/24 "2002-06-18T19:11:05Z")
I’m usually careful to warn, when responding to a “real life” type question, that not only am I not offering legal advice, but that for legal advice, the reader should consult a lawyer licensed in his own jurisdiction. I also rarely tread in the civil law posts, since I have next to no practical experience in them. But I don’t hesitate too much in offering opinion and interpretation on points of criminal law. Seldom do I point out that I’m a lawyer, especially since I no longer practice. But where I know something, and where the discussion is theoretical, I don’t feel too constrained about stepping in. Obviously, if I should happen to offer up an opinion that deserves correction, I’d welcome one of my esteemed colleagues doing just that. But I find that most of my posts tend to touch on things like general procedure, roles of appellate courts, and other generaly safe areas of commentary. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/25 "2002-06-18T19:16:36Z")
What **Bricker** said. Plus, with so many different jurisdictions, it’s really hard to say anything cogent about a particular case that is outside of one of the two jurisdictions I’m legit in, and I wouldn’t want to offer guidance in either jurisdiction for a host of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/26 "2002-06-18T20:00:25Z")
As another law talking Doper I avoid the seeking legal advice threads like the plague. No sense becoming a fact pattern in some law students Ethics class. Plus I work the transaction side of things, which seems to receive less inquiries here. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/27 "2002-06-18T22:33:17Z")
I truly don’t think I’ve given any legal advice here. I know I’ve given a number of unqualified opinions on legal interpretations though and, just as often as not, I’ve been smacked down by the real lawyers here for being wrong. But, I get up and try again. Perhaps this is wrong. I do always preface everything with IANAL (or something to that respect). I think it becomes just so tempting to chime in with something. Oh, you’re all talking about a slip and fall? I learndeded that in torts! I’ll give you my opinion based on 5 full minutes worth of classtime discussion. See how smart I am? I have toned it down though because I realize just how unqualified even my opinion is. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/28 "2002-06-19T00:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RainbowDragon \* > Legal advice, like medical advice, should only be taken with a “grain of salt” when it comes to the Internet. When it comes down to it, how do we really know you are indeed a lawyer? You could be a law student or layperson yourself, because we have absolutely no way of checking your credentials. For all you know, I could be a Supreme Court Judge (which I am not, not even an attorney). > > Do you really think someone from SDMB is going to enter a courtroom and honestly tell a judge that he received legal information from “minty green” or “BottledBlondeJeanie” and insist the judge rely on that information? I think this is the key point. If I enter a law office and pay money to get legal advice from a lawyer, then all BottledBlondeJeanie’s points apply. If the law firm gives me an unqualified representative, or offers really bad advice, I can sue them. But this is an anonymous message board! :eek: From your posts, BottledBlondeJeanie, you certainly **seem** to be a lawyer. However the fact that you state you come from the ‘State of Intoxication’ suggests that you **know** that we are not in a law office. On these boards, I have seen people claim to believe in little grey aliens, dowsing, magic, creationism and that they can get competent legal advice free from a total stranger. Just as with medical advice, **if you really have a problem, go hire a professional.** If you want to get anonymous opinions and maybe a cite or two, fine. That’s what we do. So there’s a limit to how much you can criticise anyone. P.S. I am not a lawyer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/29 "2002-06-19T00:54:28Z")
I am not disagreeing with BBJ’s point, I am only saying that I don’t think there should be different standards for lawyers and law students. _Neither_ should be giving direct legal advice to specific fact patterns on the Board without first _absolutely_ knowing what they’re talking about and either (a) being confident they are not practicing law (for the near-lawyers) or (b) being willing to take the chance that they may (though chances are slim, _may_) create an attorney-client relationship, with all the potential liability attendant to it (for the lawyers). The former is arguably unethical, as BBJ points out; the latter is IMO massively stupid, and possibly unethical as well. That said, I think there is a place for asking legal questions on a message board, and lawyers who have the background to answer such questions should feel free to do so. Examples from this Board: Is “In God We Trust” constitutional? Is shooting a dead guy “murder?” What \*is[/]i “murder,” anyway? I just got a summons. What do I do? I just got a subpoena. Can I ignore it? What’s a hung jury? Is jury nullification a good idea? Is a contract with a kid or disabled person enforceable? How come the cops can set up sobriety check points? The key IMO is not answering questions that are _fact specific_ and clearly ask for _real-world legal advice_ – unless you’re willing to chance becoming a total stranger’s lawyer, in which case you’re an idiot, not to put to fine a point on it. But that is where I would probably find the middle ground I still insist must exist. And RES, with all due respect, if you find yourself answering a legal question – any legal question – with the phrase "chances are . . . " you should hit the back space key until it disappears. IMO – and _only_ in MO – the fact is that people tend to take very seriously what lawyers say. Yeah, we’re all scum and blah blah blah, but still. We’re perceived, rightly or wrongly, to know our stuff. So do us all a favor (all of you, and all of us) and _never guess_. If you don’t _know_, please don’t post as if you do. Regardless of whether you’re “at law” or “almost at law.” ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/30 "2002-06-19T02:07:17Z")
Well, shit, I’ll start taking this to heart… …I just wish there wasn’t such a general pissiness attached to all this. I’m still learning. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/31 "2002-06-19T02:20:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BottledBlondJeanie \* > \*\*I think there’s a BIG difference between lawyers spouting off > versus law students giving borderline advice. Law students are not allowed to give legal advice…they are UNLICENSED…they are ethically forbidden from offering advice whether it’s right or wrong although if it’s right there will be fewer chances of repercussions. \*\* Maybe you could mention what state you practice in. Your state’s law on restrictions on offering legal advice could be different than others. 😉 Kidding! ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/32 "2002-06-19T03:44:45Z")
I essentially agree with **Jodi** there on the propriety of offering advice on a real situation. I’ve done it once or twice, with appropriate disclaimers, but only when the situation was relatively simple and I was absolutely sure I knew what I was talking about. Even then, I linked to the statutes on which I was basing my answer and made it clear those authorities were why I was answering the way I did. The one example that comes immediately to mind was when somebody was concerned about who inherits what in Texas (my jurisdiction) when there is no will. Easy–just link to the intestate succession statute, tell 'em to document everything in the estate, and consult a qualified attorney. **glee** , I have to strongly disagree with your post, however. Yes, I agree that people would be foolish to rely on anonymous message board legal advice and try to make that stick in the real world. The problem is that such people really are looking for real legal advice, and giving it might well create the appearance of an actual attorney-client relationship. If things go wrong for a questioner, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that I, or Jodi, or Ender, or SuaSponte _could_ end up getting sued for malpractice. I don’t think there’s any chance that such a lawsuit would be successful, but even the possibility of getting sued ought to give serious pause to any lawyer worth his or her fault. It is as much (or probably more) for ourselves why giving professional advice here can be A Very Bad Idea. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/33 "2002-06-19T03:54:02Z")
RES – > [@](#): > > Well, shit, I’ll start taking this to heart… I just wish there wasn’t such a general pissiness attached to all this. I’m still learning. I didn’t mean to be pissy, and I don’t think anyone else did either. I’m sorry if it came off that way. Don’t stop weighing in on legal threads and don’t give up the pleasure you get from sharing what you do. You add a lot to the Board; don’t forget that. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/34 "2002-06-19T04:04:49Z")
“. . . worth his or her fault.” Paging Dr. Freud! Dr. Freud to Forum #5, please! ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/35 "2002-06-19T05:36:27Z")
I saw that minty and just thought you’d coined a really cool phrase. Now I find out it was all an elaborate hoax on the id. Now I’ve lost complete and total respect for you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/36 "2002-06-19T14:46:35Z")
I’m sorry if I came across as pissy. I just think we could all use a good dose of caution with this issue as it’s prickly. \*\* Glee \*\* I’m going to have to disagree with you. Laypeople can guess and speculate all they want to on legal issues, we know they’re laypeople and a lot of the tme they have practical experience. When lawyers and law students start discussing a legal issue, there are some who put more faith in these people’s opinions…as such, we should be more careful… As for law students giving legal advice, the American Bar association, as mentioned, has weighed-in on the issue in a formal opinion…a quick check of your jurisdicition’s ehtical opinions should give ou a better idea. I do know that in TX and OK law students can’t give legal advice unless specially licensed and supervised. That said, I will continue to try to help (although not where it may appear to have caused ANY type of attn./client relationship) with general stuff such as **Jodi** mentioned… My GOD! I just realized this is a thread full of lawyers and law students and we ARE BEING RELATIVELY AMICABLE. A sure sign of the coming apolcolypse… ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/37 "2002-06-19T15:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*… The problem is that such people really are looking for real legal advice, and giving it might well create the appearance of an actual attorney-client relationship. If things go wrong for a questioner, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that I, or Jodi, or Ender, or SuaSponte _could_ end up getting sued for malpractice. I don’t think there’s any chance that such a lawsuit would be successful, but even the possibility of getting sued ought to give serious pause to any lawyer worth his or her fault. It is as much (or probably more) for ourselves why giving professional advice here can be A Very Bad Idea. \*\* The fact of the matter is that anyone can be sued in this country, with even flimsily logic behind it. I could be easily sued for giving the finger to a motorist that cut me off in traffic. However the likelihood of that ever happening is extremely slight, and the chances of being successful even more so. Does that stop me from giving drivers the finger when they piss me off? My point is that we shouldn’t live in fear of being sued all the time, yet many of us do. A friend of mine who worked retail returns was threatened with lawsuits three or five times a day on average. You can imagine how it starts to get old after awhile. I am surprised that in the years of operation of the SDMB and other anonymous message boards, that there hasn’t been a malpractice lawsuit as **minty green** suggested. That would tend to lend credence that such fears are unfounded. Another suggestion for the SDMB is to not put legal questions in the General Questions area. Legal questions are not a matter of fast facts easily definable. Instead they are matters of opinion and debate. Therefore all legal questions should go to “In My Humble Opinion” or “Great Debates”. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/38 "2002-06-19T16:27:28Z")
Many legal questions _are_ matters of easily-answerable fact. GQ is perfectly appropriate for many basic legal questions. Similarly, many legal questions are also appropriate for GD and even teh Pit. I believe that posters do an excellent job of putting OPs in the appropriate forums. And while legal malpractice suits aren’t all that terribly common, they _do_ happen. Moreover, it is simply unethical to offer legal advice without first acquiring an adequate factual background for the questioner’s problem and learning the relevant law of the jurisdictions involved. So pardon me if I _don’t_ get too enthusiastic about offering anonymous legal advice, okay? ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/39 "2002-06-19T16:35:10Z")
\*\* Minty \*\* you work downtown? We should do lunch… I’d email, but neither of us have that option available…wonder why? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575/40 "2002-06-19T16:53:53Z")
Yep, I’m right here in 75201. I took my email off a while back when the spammers struck, but the kind and generous mods should be happy to pass it along. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-giving-legal-advice/114575.md?page=3)