# Please stop using singular they for posters who have an established gender **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 29, 2023, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306 "2023-12-29T10:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/301 "2023-12-31T01:38:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I learned about the prefixes from history - Cisalpine and Transalpine Gaul are the Roman provinces in northern Italy (Cisalpine) and beyond the Alps (Transalpine). I think I first saw it in a comic book: cislunar vs translunar… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/302 "2023-12-31T02:15:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see that they have a right … I don’t have a right for someone to let me into traffic, or to say please or thank you to me, but I do it for others and am reasonably expecting politeness and consideration from others as well. Respecting how others want to be addressed when you are aware of a preference is basic manners. Manners are not rights. Sometimes lack of manners is being a jerk and a board can decide what amount of jerkiness crosses the line. There is no right to be a jerk. Your comparison to the hateful words that start with n and c is specious. Unless one believes that the general usage of gendered pronouns is as a form of hate speech. Is that your belief? > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Ok. You can call me “out of here” I’ve never understood the need to announce such a decision. Really just stop posting. No need to announce it. FWIW, yes you and and a trans woman can be simply called women. In a thread in which a distinction between you being a woman by way of AFAB and someone being a woman without being AFAB is pertinent the phrases cis-woman and trans-woman allow for nonjudgmental precision. In that context stating that the word means you and that trans woman requires specifying would be rude, would be being a jerk at the minimum. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/303 "2023-12-31T02:16:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is how I understood it too, and fits the example above - we have the near and far sides of the Alps. Couldn’t the other side be be _ultra_ or _uls_? I thought “trans” was something like “across” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/304 "2023-12-31T02:32:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I thought “trans” was something like “across” Either that or “far side”, so “Gallia Transalpina” is “Gaul Across the Alps” or “Gaul on the Far Side of the Alps” while “Gallia Cisalpina” means “Gaul on Thus Side of the Alps”. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/305 "2023-12-31T03:00:23Z")
I’ll tell you why. So maybe people will stop responding in demeaning ways to my very valid feelings on this. Nearly calling me stupidly confused. I say I don’t like to be called something, asked, asked mind you, why I couldn’t be called what I wanted and told, “Oh no you mustn’t do that, it offends some one, somewhere.” Not on this board tho’. Which is where we are, at the moment, afterall. I said it so folks quit asking questions I’m clearly not gonna answer. I said it 'cause I wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/306 "2023-12-31T03:35:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@DPRK](#): > > > > I thought “trans” was something like “across” > > Either that or “far side”, so “Gallia Transalpina” is “Gaul Across the Alps” or “Gaul on the Far Side of the Alps” while “Gallia Cisalpina” means “Gaul on Thus Side of the Alps” I always assumed Roman writers meant “trans” as “across” because Transalpine Gaul was across the Alps from the city of Rome. But I’m not a Latinist; that was just my guess, when I was studying the language in high school. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/307 "2023-12-31T03:37:42Z")
I don’t believe I asked you a question. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/308 "2023-12-31T03:39:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And famously, in German, “Madchen”, meaning “girl”, is also neuter Thus Mark Twain’s famous comment, “In German, a young lady has no sex, but a turnip has.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/309 "2023-12-31T03:41:52Z")
I don’t think I said you did. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/310 "2023-12-31T04:24:09Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Trans women have been oppressed by being excluded from “women” instead of being considered a subgroup of all women. To fix that, you need something to call them, and the subgroup of women who are not them. It can’t be “women,” full stop.   How about calling them what they really are?:  Men Men are not, and never will be women, no matter what they believe, no matter what they pretend, no matter what they have done to themselves to try to become pseudo-women.  That’s just hard, immutable science.   And it is most certainly not _“oppression”_ to decline to recognize anyone as what they clearly are not.   Why should real women have any need for a _“cis…”_ prefix, to distinguish them from fake women? ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/311 "2023-12-31T04:26:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Because that implies that a trans woman is not a woman.   Why should that be a problem?  As a matter of undeniable, immutable scientific fact, a _“trans woman”_ is a man, and not, in any rational sense, any kind of woman. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/312 "2023-12-31T04:30:21Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I’ll tell you why. So maybe people will stop responding in demeaning ways to my very valid feelings on this. Nearly calling me stupidly confused. > I say I don’t like to be called something, asked, asked mind you, why I couldn’t be called what I wanted and told, “Oh no you mustn’t do that, it offends some one, somewhere.” Oh, my precious feelings are hurt, is what every bigot says when their privilege is challenged. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/313 "2023-12-31T04:40:25Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > Men are not, and never will be women, no matter what they believe, no matter what they pretend, no matter what they have done to themselves to try to become pseudo-women. That’s just hard, immutable science. Let me guess… **you** get to decide who is a man. (Or, even better: “a man has a penis”. Because if a soldier comes back from war with a grievous injury, we’re going to add insult to injury by telling him he’s not a _man_ anymore). Hey, speaking of “hard, immutable” science: what gender is an intersex person? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/314 "2023-12-31T04:41:28Z")
Thread closed pending availability of @engineer_comp_geek. Also, we have more than enough flags on this thread. No need for more of them. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/315 "2023-12-31T04:41:36Z")
---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/316 "2023-12-31T16:37:08Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > Why should that be a problem? As a matter of undeniable, immutable scientific fact, a _“trans woman”_ is a man, and not, in any rational sense, any kind of woman. We realize that gender issues can be controversial. However, as was already posted upthread, our admin has very clearly stated that if you don’t agree with the board’s position on this issue, keep your opinion to yourself. The comment quoted here, along with several others in this thread, have very clearly violated this rule. This is an official warning for transphobic comments and hate speech. We will also be discussing your posting privileges here. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/317 "2023-12-31T16:44:00Z")
Given that this thread has devolved into a lot of petty snipping at each other, this will remain closed. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306/318 "2024-01-02T05:46:40Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > Why should that be a problem? As a matter of undeniable, immutable scientific fact, a _“trans woman”_ is a man, and not, in any rational sense, any kind of woman. After a discussion, the staff has decided that a one week suspension is appropriate. You are also permanently topic-banned from any topic involving transgender issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-stop-using-singular-they-for-posters-who-have-an-established-gender/995306.md?page=15)