# Please talk me down this ledge (my 8 year old is starting puberty) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838 "2013-08-22T00:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/41 "2013-08-23T14:07:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Except that estrogen and estrogenics are more common in food than testosterone and androgens. And do you think we’re not seeing some issues in boys, like greater adiposity, even though it’s not affecting their puberty onset? > > I’m firmly in the “I dunno” camp on this one, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think, “but boys aren’t maturing faster” is a reason to discount the theory entirely. > > (That being said, chicken in the US doesn’t have hormones, and hasn’t since they were banned for use in poultry in 1959.) I’m not convinced it isn’t happening with boys - the thing with boys is that the changes are more subtle - they aren’t suddenly bleeding and needing bras. > **[Boys – like girls – hitting puberty earlier | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/10/20/health/boys-early-puberty)** > > Boys in the United States are starting puberty earlier than ever, according to a new study publishing in the journal Pediatrics. My son, in sixth grade, went from little kid face to having a jaw. A serious manly jaw. When he was nine, there was giggling from the bathroom and the announcement that one of his friends had “hair down thair.” He’s not quite fifteen and anytime he wants to take the peach fuzz off his face would be fine with me. And my son is Asian - not exactly known for growing manly facial hair. (That article makes an interesting point - obesity MIGHT delay puberty in boys, because fat tissue can convert other hormones into estrogen). ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/42 "2013-08-23T14:25:06Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > irst period at 9 and B-cup at 10. > > The worst part is adults not believing you, treating the whole situation as “abnormal” and making everything to do with developing and especially menstruation a 1,000x more awkward and embarassing than it is for adult women. > > For example: no disposal can in the girls bathroom stalls. So you have to parade through the bathroom, past all the mean popular girls, with a bloody maxipad/tampon applicator in your hand (wrapped up, obviously but still) because the only trash is by the door. Or teachers straight up telling you you’re lying about having your period. > > Then there’s the never ending stream of adults commenting on your breasts. Many of the comments are clearly well meaning, but Why the fuck are you, distant relation or friend of family, talking to me about my 9 year old breasts? SHUT UP. “Gosh you’re developing! That must be exciting” (me: [del]yeah, blobs of fat growing on me, hurting all the time, and ruining everything good is the bomb[/del] uh… I guess.) > > Third worst part was a crew of very confused boys who decided they should lie in wait after school, run up to me, touch me innocuously (such as by tapping my shoulder) and then run away cackling. Every goddamn day. I get it now: _Boobs. I got near boobs! OMG!!!_ But at the time it was just bewildering. And annoying. I tried being above it but it actually ended when I flipped out and attacked one of the perps and drew blood… they lost their zest for it after that. I never got in trouble. To my knowledge no adult ever knew of any of this. > > “Where do I come from” is for kindergartners. And it’s about having sex and making babies (who cares?) not about puberty. My mom slipped a copy of “What’s Happening to my Body” which is a sort of junior-scale “Our Bodies Ourselves” (it’s even been retitled “[My Body, Myself](http://www.amazon.com/Body-Girls-Revised-Whats-Happening/dp/1557047669/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377140387&sr=1-2&keywords=whats+happening+to+my+body)” in the most recent edition) I wasn’t all “gee mom, you’re the bestest!” but yeah, I read it multiple times. > > Also, in my public school we had age appropriate sex-ed (essentially, puberty-ed) in the 5th grade, which was of a very good quality (taught by a specialist educator, not some random lunkhead gym teacher). This all reinforces the stance I came to with my daughter (10): treat it as something normal. Something different, that it’s expected to have questions and worries about, but a normal part of life. Also, it was very important to my daughter to be reassured that even when she gets her period, she will still be a kid. There’s a lot of messages out there about “becoming a woman,” and that prospect can be a lot scarier to an elementary schoolkid than some pubic hair and menstruation, you know? And you know what? I’m going to make sure that my children’s school has disposal containers in the stalls, because even if my kid will likely be out of the building before she needs them, we all know there are girls dealing with it in her school right now. And it’s awfully shitty not to have facilities for them. _Putting on to do list_ Oh, and I got her My Body, My Self, and it’s perfect. She does NOT want to be reading about what’s happening to boys, or about sex. She just wants information (details!) about what her body will be doing in the next couple years. And that book gives her that. We have books about sex and babies and all that as well, but again, you don’t want to necessarily make the connection, “Now that you’re in puberty, it’s time for sex!” They are related, but not the same thing. She’ll know that once a girl starts ovulating, she can get pregnant from sex. But what she really wants to know is how you deal with spontaneously and unexpectedly bleeding, whether she needs a bra with certain shirts, how often she really has to take a shower, and stuff like that. > [@Sateryn76](#): > > What are you guys worried about? It’s going to happen, and it’s a good thing! > > If you make it a big deal, then she’ll think it’s a Big Deal. But it’s not, not at all. It’s a perfectly human, natural thing, and should be treated as such. Exactly. I also would say don’t make a negative OR positive big deal about it. My mom tried to be all congratulatory and celebrate when I got my period and I was like, “Really Mom? This sucks. Don’t congratulate me.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/43 "2013-08-23T17:33:29Z")
1. 8 years old is not an abnormal age. On the earlyish side but within normal. 2. Breast development onset is without question earlier than it was even just a few decades ago but the onset of menses has [not changed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12509562)much. There is no hard timeline from breast development onset to onset of menses. 3. FWIW I do agree that the culprit is increased environmental estrogen-like substances so that the little early natural estrogen blips are on top of a higher background and cross a threshold for breast development. On the male side we do see a higher frequency of the already not uncommon male breast development of early puberty as well. ---
**Author:** ![Claire98909](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Claire98909](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claire98909)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/44 "2013-08-24T00:50:58Z")
I started budding at age 8, and I’m sure that I was aware of it at the time, but I guess I had forgotten about it because I was recently looking through old family pictures (I’m 22 now) and was surprised (and rather angry at the unfairness of it) to see me with tiny little breast buds in a photo dated 1998. I was still just a little kid, a peanut, really, and I looked as though I was about 6, so the buds were a bit surprising. I didn’t start my period, however, until I was almost 11. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/45 "2013-08-24T01:23:22Z")
Hurry, get her into gymnastics! 😃 Good luck at the doc’s, I’m sure they and you will handle it cool as a cucumber! ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/46 "2013-08-24T01:30:51Z")
Hey, **Mighty-Girl** , your daughter should see an endocrinologist. She is admittedly borderline, age-wise, but precocious puberty is not something to ignore. There may be related health concerns, **some serious**. Also, rapid bone maturation caused by early puberty can cause growth to end too quickly resulting in short stature as an adult. Delaying puberty through medications (monthly Lupron injections) is not uncommon. She would first get a bone-age x-ray of the hand (easy and painless), then a gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulation test (which I can tell you all about, if you like). At the very least, see a pediatric endocrinologist. PM me if you want to talk. Best wishes, mmm ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/47 "2013-08-24T02:43:04Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Hey, **Mighty-Girl** , your daughter should see an endocrinologist. We’ll see her pediatrician on Tue, she needed to because it was her birthday recently and time for a yearly check up. He will probably send her to the endocrinologist. I talked to my daughter’s best friends’ mom today. Apparently her daughter, who is a couple of months older than mine, is going exactly through the same. She was referred to a pediatric endocrinologist after they found raised levels of estradiol. She had a change of diet and the doctor is monitoring her. Unlike my daughter (who’s muscular), she’s very slim, skinny even, and a little shorter. We’ll probably end up seeing the same pediatric endocrinologist. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/48 "2013-08-24T03:14:42Z")
I have a six month old daughter. I’m dreading that day. Luckily I can pawn her off on her mother. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/49 "2013-08-24T03:32:58Z")
No offense **Mean Mr Mustard** but your advice is way off base here. Again, breast bud development is NORMAL and pretty dang common at age 8 and 100% is NOT precocious puberty. We general pediatricians see it ALL the time and unless there is something else shouting out on a physical exam further testing or referral is not appropriate. Even 7 is not currently considered abnormal in non-White populations (although _some_ still advocate for referral of non-White 7 year old girls with puberty onset). Estradiol _should_ be somewhat elevated during early puberty albeit the test is notoriously unreliable. Here is one basic [puberty 101 for parents](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/parents/puberty-101-parents-22999.htm) that should help some. (This one from Planned Parenthood.) > [@](#): > > The bodies of some girls begin changing at age eight. …Breast growth is usually the first sign of puberty for girls. Girls may develop breast “buds”, or swelling and soreness around the nipples. This usually happens between the ages of eight and 13 … Breasts will grow slowly over several years. One breast may be a little larger than the other. This is not unusual. Parents can reassure girls that their breasts may not be as different from one another when they are older. … Here is the [American Academy Of Pediatrics guidance](http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/puberty/Pages/Physical-Development-Girls-What-to-Expect.aspx) for you: > [@](#): > > girls do not need to be evaluated for precocious puberty unless they are Caucasian girls showing breast development before age seven or African American girls with breast development before age six. It is not known why, but in the United States, African American girls generally enter puberty a year before Caucasian girls; they also have nearly a year’s head start when it comes to menstruation. No similar pattern has been found among boys. > > Regardless of a girl’s age, her parents are often unprepared for the emergence of breast buds … Again, early breast development does not necessarily mean early onset of menses; most girls still get their first period with a year of when Mom had gotten hers. Definitely see and discuss with _your regular pediatrician_. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/50 "2013-08-28T00:13:39Z")
How did your visit go today? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/51 "2013-08-28T00:33:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How did your visit go today? With a referral to a pediatric endocrinologist for confirmation. And an otherwise very healthy child. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/52 "2013-08-28T00:36:18Z")
The pediatrician told me he’s seen more and more of these cases, and that although the lower “normal” age for puberty has been lowered he personally sends every child under nine to the endocrinologist, and have the parents decide the course of action. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/53 "2013-08-28T01:49:53Z")
Thank you for the update. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/54 "2013-08-28T04:16:21Z")
Wow. My daughter will be turning five in October. I can’t believe this could be happening in less time from now than since she’s been born. She’s still a tiny child. . . Nope. Won’t happen. I can live in denial for another while. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/55 "2013-08-29T15:17:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Thank you for the update. I will post an update when we see the endocrinologist. If it comes to that, we have decided to give her hormone treatment to delay puberty another year at least and give her time to grow physically and mentally. ---
**Author:** ![Mathematics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@Mathematics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathematics)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/56 "2013-08-29T15:41:07Z")
I really hope she doesn’t notice your attitude. Do all parents really feel this way? My mom sort of freaked out when I started my period slightly early but still normal. “Oh my god! My baby’s growing up! Why do kids start their periods so young these days? :eek:” It really didn’t help anything. ☹ You say she doesn’t know, but I bet she has picked up on more than you think. Why does she think she’s going to a specialist? I’m sure she knows something is “wrong”. I am also fairly certain breast buds at 8 are not abnormal but I’d trust the endocrinologist over people on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/57 "2013-08-29T16:12:09Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I will post an update when we see the endocrinologist. If it comes to that, we have decided to give her hormone treatment to delay puberty another year at least and give her time to grow physically and mentally. You would give a healthy child hormone treatment even if she is, in fact, developing normally? Um… OK. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/58 "2013-08-29T20:12:11Z")
> [@Mathematics](#): > > I really hope she doesn’t notice your attitude. She hasn’t noticed anything. She doesn’t know anything. To her she had the same checkup she’s had every year for the last 8 years. I spoke to the doctor in private before he saw her. He referred me to an endocrinologist. She knows that she’s going to another doctor that will check she’s growing properly because she’s becoming a big child. “If it comes to that” = if the endocrinologist suggests it. I will trust people with actual degrees over anonymous people on the internet with the health of my child. I can’t be that bad at this when I have managed to keep her 100% healthy to this very day (except for the occasional mild cold). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/59 "2013-08-29T20:54:35Z")
“Hormone treatment” is simply hormone _blockers_. They don’t add anything to the milieu, they simply attach to the hormone receptors so that estrogens can’t. Very safe and well tested. ( **Mighty\_Girl** , I think I’d do the same, for my girl should she develop breast buds today. She’s very smart, but she’s not particularly emotionally mature, and she’s a people pleaser, and that’s a bad combo with boobs…she knows just enough to get herself into real trouble before she’s developed the life skills to get herself back out again.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838/60 "2013-08-29T21:52:03Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > “Hormone treatment” is simply hormone _blockers_. They don’t add anything to the milieu, they simply attach to the hormone receptors so that estrogens can’t. Very safe and well tested. > > ( **Mighty\_Girl** , I think I’d do the same, for my girl should she develop breast buds today. She’s very smart, but she’s not particularly emotionally mature, and she’s a people pleaser, and that’s a bad combo with boobs…she knows just enough to get herself into real trouble before she’s developed the life skills to get herself back out again.) My daughter is growing in as safe an environment as it possible could, short of sending her to the fortress of solitude. I am not scared about creeps. I trust people would believe me when I say I know my child better than anyone. She’s very smart, like your daughter, and like yours mine is not emotionally mature enough for puberty. She is exactly what you expect of a kid who just turned 8 and has lived the sheltered life of a middle class kid living in a gated community. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-talk-me-down-this-ledge-my-8-year-old-is-starting-puberty/666838.md?page=4)