# Please tell me what I am... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2000, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953 "2000-04-05T05:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/41 "2000-04-06T05:12:00Z")
Brian, according to the responses on the LBMB, I’d have to say the best description would be “hellbound heathen”. 🙂 Seriously, though, I don’t see any reason to pigeonhole yourself into a particular label. You know what you believe, and that should be plenty for anyone. My preferred label for myself is Recovering Southern Baptist (it’s like being an alcoholic–you never really get over it). However, I believe God is an idea–like love, evil, or happiness, and similarly hard to define. I think of God as everything good, everything positive. It makes sense if you think about it–what else but an idea can truly be everywhere at once? God is great, God is good. God is love. And wouldn’t we like to think that we, and the world, were borne out of this idea of pure goodness? Man was created in that image (purely good) but couldn’t cut the mustard. Jesus tells us to love that which is good, and love the people around us–good advice, even to the scoffer. This being the case, I don’t like calling myself an atheist–who am I to say that an idea doesn’t exist? However, I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic being or entity with a consciousness and personality, so I don’t like deist or theist, either. That’s why I prefer “Recovering Southern Baptist”. (Now you see why I shy away from theological discussions on the LBMB.) Dr. J * * * “Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/42 "2000-04-05T18:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The difference is he isn’t an asshole about it Well I guess that eliminates ‘Christian’ as a possible answer to the topic request 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/43 "2000-04-05T18:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Satan** : > > … much wisdom is to be learned from many different religious texts, that all of them are merely stories that men - inspired by God, or Prophets - put to paper, and that none of these texts - let alone a single Bible - could very well capture all there is to know about God. > > There was no one “right” path, even though most religions say there’s is that way; they were simply different paths to the same God, it’s just that He has different names and different cultures and ceremony to learn about Him. And God would not reject his children who made an honest attempt to know Him, whether he book was The Torah, the New Testament or the Koran. > > Nutshell: All the same dude! And all valid ways to learn to know Him! **You are a Unitarian Universalist.** Get thee to a bake sale. Seriously, that is certainly well within the pervue of UU’s (although we do accept Agnostics and Atheists among our number, so all of the above would be applicable _to you_, not necessarily to all UU’s). Esprix, happily UU since 1986 * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/44 "2000-04-05T18:39:00Z")
Huh. I think I’m going to look into this Deist thing some more. And, **Nav** , you are cool. 😉 Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/45 "2000-04-05T19:25:00Z")
Good topic, sir. I’ve been wondering much the same thing meself lately. (Actually discussed it with my mother on her last visit, which was REALLY weird.) I was raised Catholic, confirmed Catholic, and yet…I am SO not a Catholic. I don’t believe in anything they teach, including the “big one” of transubstantiation. Which basically disqualifies me from being a Catholic. I still go to mass ocassionally, but more for the music and the hour break from my week than anything else. So, I’ve wondered what _I_ am as well. I’m not an atheist, because I do believe there’s a God. (Although I wonder why He puts me through such crap sometimes, but that’s another thread.) I’ve considered a lot of things, read a lot of books, talked to people, and come to a conclusion. It doesn’t matter. My mother, for once, put it best. If you act in a way that would be pleasing to God, and you have a relationship with Him, what religion you are is unimportant. To me, anyway. Just another thought to add, I suppose…don’t know if this helped. * * * Homepage: [www.tiercel.com](http://www.tiercel.com) Occupation: Culling slow moving vermin Location: The wild blue yonder. Interests: Thermals, updrafts, downdrafts, air currents in general. (Profile by UncleBeer.) ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/46 "2000-04-05T19:33:00Z")
Satan, allow me to introduce myself, since I don’t think we have ever become formally acquainted with one another. I am god and an atheist. Please don’t view this statement as a sarcastic slant on your conundrum; allow me to explain. Along with the rest of us in purgatory, I was raised in the Roman Catholic tradition. I first remember attending Mass when I was three. I immediately realized that there was something desperately wrong with situation at hand. My mother forced me to attend Mass and all of the typical religious classes for youths, but when it came to the rites of passage, I resolutely claimed I would not subject myself to or become indoctrinated into a belief which I do not hold to be true. Having finally escaped my mother’s control on my religious activity, I had a dear friend who educated me in the ways of the Kabbalah (Qabbalah, Cabala, pick your translation). I found the tradition to be fascinating. I then began to study Hindu, Tantra, Buddhism, Zen, Shinto, et cetera. In all “religions” (I utilize quotation marks to indicate that I maintain that some of these schools of thought more appropriately fall into the category of philosophy) I have found particular tenets or writings to be quite thought provoking and have elements of truth. All of my studies have been steadfastly rooted in reason, logic and atheism. I have often found it beneficial to discuss my discoveries and interpretations with my lovely fiancee, who is a graduate student in religious studies, particularly ancient mediterranean religion with a focus on the New Testament. Although an agnostic, she also finds religions to be fascinating, and like you, at times she feels that she should for some reason align herself with one. Where am I going with this train of thought? It seems to me that there are four types of individuals with regard to religious thought: fundamentalists, atheists, those who are content to follow despite wholeheartedly embracing a particular religion, and those who continually search for niche in which they belong. In regards to a particular line in the OP: > [@](#): > > Or am I forever going to not find anyone who is like-minded in what I believe, and my spiritual studying will be reading those texts - learning - in solitude, unable to celebrate my faith and love for God in a church that would have me? My best friend (aside from my fiancee), Tymp (a fellow doper), is also an atheist. We seldom find much to discuss pertaining to religions. My fiancee and I have extremely stimulating discussions; without my previous exposure these conversations would be limited. It is in this forum which I learn and grow. Herein lies an odd form of celebration, if you will. Although I am an atheist, if I were to be forced to give meaning to the word god it would be this: god is one. One is all and none. All and none are existence and nonexistence. I am existence and nonexistence. I am god. So is everything else. This reasoning is why I have no personal need for religion. By definition, the celebration is always happening. As was previously so eloquently expressed in regards to informing you what you are, that’s your job. What does god mean to you? What does spirituality mean to you? Do you need a formal, established forum in which to proceed? Which of the four types of individuals do I wish to be? In my humble opinion, it is the prolonged process of answering and reevaluating the answers to those questions which will begin to give you insight as to who you are and where you need to be with respect to religion. Never allow yourself to remain stagnant or grow to comfortable with your insights. I hope you were able to glean something useful from this rambling. Yer pal, god the atheist ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/47 "2000-04-05T19:34:00Z")
“My mother, for once, put it best. If you act in a way that would be pleasing to God, and you have a relationship with Him, what religion you are is unimportant.” —But what about those of us who don’t believe in gods or religion at all, and are still perfectly happy, well-adjusted and nice people? Well, as happy, well-adjusted and nice as the next fellah, anyway . . . ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/48 "2000-04-05T20:12:00Z")
Eve, with a little tinkering perhaps it will work: “My mother, for once, put it best. If you act in a way that would be pleasing to [the God in which you do not believe], and you have a relationship with [that non-existent God], what religion you [aren’t] is unimportant.” ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/49 "2000-04-05T20:23:00Z")
Don’t forget though, someone (I think it was Rousseau [not the SDMB poster but the dead French guy]) once said something like, “God either exists or he does not. I can either believe in him or not. The only way I can lose among the four possible combinations is if God exists and I do not believe in Him. Therefore I believe.” (of course he wasn’t dead when saying this) * * * Live a Lush Life Da Chef ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/50 "2000-04-05T20:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > If you act in a way that would be pleasing to [the God in which you do not believe], and you have a relationship with [that non-existent God], what religion you [aren’t] is unimportant." But I don’t believe in _any_ of the Gods! So now I have to please _all_ of ‘em? Y’know, it’ll be awfully tough to find a human sacrifice to please ol’ Quetzalcoatl nowadays. ::sigh:: 😉 How about: “Try to be a good person, and not hurt others needlessly; and if that’s not good enough for any God(s), well, they can just bite me (or consign me to an eternity of horrific torment, whichever they prefer).” 😃 * * * Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that She is pink; logically, we know She is invisible because we can’t see Her. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/51 "2000-04-05T20:24:00Z")
How about: If you act in a way that is pleasing, and you have good relationships, it doesn’t matter what you are not. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/52 "2000-04-05T20:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Chef Troy: > “God either exists or he does not. I can either believe in him or not. The only way I can lose among the four possible combinations is if God exists and I do not believe in Him. Therefore I believe.” Don’t you lose a big portion of your life if you devote time to a god that doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/53 "2000-04-05T20:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## If you act in a way that would be pleasing to [the God in which you do not believe], and you have a relationship with [that non-existent God], what religion you [aren’t] is unimportant." > > But I don’t believe in _any_ of the Gods! So now I have to please all of ‘em? Y’know, it’ll be awfully tough to find a human sacrifice to please ol’ Quetzalcoatl nowadays. ::sigh:: No, No, No! It doesn’t say that you should act in a way pleasing to all gods in which you don’t belive. You have to figure which is _the_ god in which you do not believe. If you don’t believe in Quetzalcoatl, that’s fine, you can be pleasing to him (or it, whatever). If you don’t believe in the Holy Trinity, you can be pleasing to it. All you have to do is figure out which god is the one you don’t believe in, and you have it. You atheists can be so darn wishy-washy sometimes. If you’re going to be an atheist, I want to know exactly which _theism_ you’re _a_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/54 "2000-04-05T20:50:00Z")
I have a glorious dream that someday there will be a religious debate where Pascal’s Wager doesn’t come up at all. :😁: I believe that’s whom you’re talking about, Chef Troy. Check out this link: [Problems with Pascals’ Wager](http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html#pascal) We did a whole thread on this a while back, too. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/55 "2000-04-05T20:58:00Z")
**Satan** , disregard all previous posts. **Gaudere** is right–follow in the path of the _Invisible Pink Unicorn_. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/56 "2000-04-05T21:50:00Z")
I’m disinclined to go with “deist,” **Brian**. But see what you think: > [@](#): > > **deism** (dê´îz´em) _noun_ > The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation. > > [French _déisme_, from Latin _deus_, god.] > _The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition_ copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. I’m concerned about the “solely on reason” bit. How about simply “theist?” And Gaudere, with your permission?: * * * “Try to be a good person, and not hurt others needlessly; and if that’s not good enough for any God(s), well, they can just bite me (or consign me to an eternity of horrific torment, whichever they prefer).” -Gaudere ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/57 "2000-04-05T21:53:00Z")
In the following, I have elaborated in some detail on how I came to my own decisions about similar questions, starting from a different point but crossing similar territory. In places, I have some critical things to say about Christian belief and practice; I make these points not to denigrate the faith of others, but to explain my own thinking about the issues involved, and why I made the choices I did, hoping that my explanation may serve to delineate some of these questions and serve as heuristics for Brian and anyone else who may happen across them. I sincerely hope that my candor will not offend those who hold contrary beliefs, as no offense is intended. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I converted to Judaism about four years ago. I was raised Methodist, but dropped any pretense of religious belief or practice around the time I started college. I had developed a number of differences with Christian theology, and had studied a number of oriental religions more on an academic than spiritual level, and though I was quite taken with Zen Buddhism for a while, the fascination never matured into practice. For a number of years, I held no strong feelings of any sort about religion – I considered it irrelevant to my life. As I approached the end of my twenties, I began to understand the value of religious commitment for informing the conduct of one’s life, but having rejected the default option for someone of my upbringing and culture, I did not actively seek an alternative. In the meantime, I had met the Jewish woman who is now my wife. Since moving to Atlanta, I’d had many more opportunities to meet Jews than I’d had in Arkansas, and I’d found myself drawn to many of them, though none on so intimate a level as her. After a fairly long period in which we both dismissed the possibility of our relationship becoming permanent (for a long list of reasons, religion among them), we began to seriously consider the prospect of marrying. It being important to her to raise her children as Jews, I undertook a study of Judaism, including a twelve-week introduction to Judaism course. At that point, I was not seriously considering conversion; I already had too much respect for what it means to be Jewish to undertake an idle conversion merely for the sake of convincing a rabbi to officiate at our wedding, and I did not believe that I was ready to make a whole-hearted commitment to any religion. The more I studied and learned, however, the more congenial I found Jewish belief and practice, and eventually I decided to convert. The aspects of Judaism that appealed to me were: [list][li]The emphasis on present life, rather than the afterlife. I believe very strongly in power of religious commitment and faith to make one’s life fuller, more meaningful, and more worthy. In practice, Chrsitianity puts far too much value for my taste on avoiding the fires of everlasting perdition and not enough on “doing justice, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God” (to paraphrase Micah). Without believing at all in an afterlife, one can derive enormous benefits from having a set of core values and living every day in accord with them – indeed, this is the chief appeal of religion to me. Notions of an afterlife in Judaism are vague and ultimately not very important in either Jewish belief or practice. Rather, Judaism highly values _tikkun olam_, repairing or perfecting the world – this one. Jewishly, it is the responsibility of every Jew to live in accordance with the commandments and thus to make the world a better place by improving himself and by promoting justice for all people. This advances the world toward perfection and hence toward the coming of the _moshiach_, or messiah. This leads me to . . .[/li][li]The emphasis on practice. One of my main beefs with Christianity is the pre-eminence of belief. While there are entire libraries filled with advice on living a Christian life, in most Christian denominations, you can ignore all of it so long as you profess belief and ask God’s forgiveness. Meanwhile, most Christian denominations are all too eager to dictate what you must believe in order to achieve salvation, in extraordinary detail – and vast quantities of blood and ink have been spilled over their disagreements over belief, with no appreciable differences in practice resulting from them. On the other hand, being a _bar_ or _bat mitzvah_, Jewishly, means accepting the obligation to live one’s life in a certain way, to follow the commandments, to live righteously and seek justice. As for belief, there are precious few of the _mitzvot_ that dictate belief – they almost exclusive deal with how one conducts one’s life.[/li][li]The acceptance, even encouragement, of skepticism and questioning, even of the most important Jewish practices and beliefs. While Jews are expected to fulfill all of the commandments (though being exempted for the time being from those that pertain specifically to the Temple in Jersualem), they are not expected to do so unquestioningly. On the contrary, Jewish thinkers through the ages have produced a stunning amount of debate and disputation about the meaning of Torah, and continue to do so to this very minute. To argue and question are practically as much of the essence of Judaism as observance of the _mitzvot_. I don’t think I need to elaborate much on the distinction between Judaism and Christianity on this head. Though some Christian thinkers have maintained that faith in the face of doubt is the higher faith, many more have insisted on unquestioning belief.[/li][li]Enormous latitude in one’s conception of G-d. One thing Jews are required to believe is that G-d exists. Beyond that, however, there’s little in Jewish belief or practice that establishes what that means, and ample opportunity for one’s notion of G-d to develop, change, and mature. While it might seem that such an ill-defined idea of G-d would make for dissent and discord, in fact the opposite seems to be the case: because the Jewish idea of G-d allows for such a wide range of belief, Judaism is able to encompass them all without being self-contradictory.[/li][li]Its non-exclusivity. While believing that Jews have entered into a special covenant with G-d to adhere to a higher standard of behavior than the rest of humanity, Judaism believes in the salvation of all righteous people, righteous being defined as adhering to the seven commandments of the Noahide covenant, which are to avoid idol worship, to avoid blasphemy, not to murder, steal, or commit adultery, not to eat flesh cut from a living animal, and to establish rule of law and courts of justice. Not a whole lot to expect, and not much that adherents of other religions wouldn’t already be doing (with the possible exceptions of the proscription of idol worship and blasphemy).[/li][li]Its avoidance of proselytizing. This arises naturally from the previous point. While there are a lot of cultural and historical reasons for Jews to avoid seeking to convert those of other faiths, the most profound is solidly rooted in Jewish belief: if those not already subject to Jewish law need only fulfill seven commandments to achieve righteousness, it is potentially a great disservice to saddle them with the obligations of another six hundred and some. Hence, unless a potential convert is deeply committed, it is incumbent on a rabbi to dissuade proseltyes for their own sakes.[/li][li]The absence of any intermediate agency between man and G-d. Judaism emphasizes the responsibility of each person for himself. No one else, not even the Messiah, is expected or required to assume the sins of others. You live righteously, or you don’t, but it’s not on anyone else’s head either way. Neither is a rabbi required for you to live a righteous Jewish life, though it does make many things easier. Another aspect of this is that forgiveness, Jewishly, must be asked not only of G-d but of whomever one may have wronged, and restitution made. This is to me much more powerful and just than the Christian concept.[/li]The communal nature of Jewish practice. While ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/58 "2000-04-06T01:34:00Z")
Wow… Great post about Judaism. In looking into it, I myself found it to be attractive, and being born into it, won’t have to pass any tests! 😉 I do think that Judaism is something I will be spendiing a lot of time looking at. However, upon looking at the advice I was given by everyone, I rejected what a Deist is, because I like to think that God still gives a fuck. Otherwise, why would He be talking to me? Then I looked at the homepage for the [Unitarian Universalist Association](http://www.uua.org/) page, and it was as if they read my posts(s) here (and my mind, to a degree) and whipped up a religion up with my name on it! How ironic that I can tell everyone that I found my church because a fag told me! (Kidding, Esprix… Saying “a homosexual” in that context would take the punch out of the line!) 😃 What is also nice is that there is a branch of this church right here in Raleigh, that (according to the site) is 415 members big. Needless to say, my fears of being alone in my quest are gone. Of course, I could go and find out it SUCKS, but I like what I’ve seen so far. Now, i do have a couple of questions for anyone who is familiar with this church. First of all, for such a liberal and according to the site “child-friendly” church, it is almost all old white dudes according to the demographics page. Kinda odd, IMHO. Why would this be (although the Raleigh church could be different, I don’t know until i go)? Also, it said something about two churches merging, and some of the churches are called Uniterian, others Universalist, and others UU. Is there really any difference between them all? Does one denomination teach a different thing in any way? Or is it just that a church which has such an open view about how it’s congregations worship is also a bit lax on getting the new signs painted up (which is what I suspect)? Also, I realize that some fundamentalist Christians still think that this church is just another path to hell. I’m sorry for them that they feel this way. All I know is that I was positively overjoyed while reading about this church, and I am anxiously awaiting to see what it’s like in practice! Thank you all for your posts, and any otheer information would rock as well! * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/59 "2000-04-06T04:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by DoctorJ: > However, I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic being or entity with a consciousness and personality, so I don’t like deist or theist, either. That’s why I prefer “Recovering Southern Baptist”. Deists do not necessarily believe in God as an “anthropomorphic being.” I certainly don’t. (See my earlier post for more on this.) And in regards to the dictionary definition of Deism posted by andros: It may be in the dictionary, but it ain’t necessarily so! You say: > [@](#): > > I’m concerned about the “solely on reason” bit. And I am, too. Satan, I am glad that this thread has given you some ideas about which avenues you would like to explore. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953/60 "2000-04-06T04:37:00Z")
Ah. I looked at the definition of Deism in the Merriam-Webster available through [Britannica.com](http://www.britannica.com). Here is the definition: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: de·ism > Pronunciation: 'dE-"i-z&m, 'dA- > Function: noun > Usage: often capitalized > Date: 1682 > : a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the > interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe Now that’s more like it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-tell-me-what-i-am/17953.md?page=4)